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Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

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Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#251

Post by 0xfeba »

marktangotango wrote: post #197
akudha wrote: post #77

Not me personally, but the company I started my career with (was an intern there for a few months). ERM software. When a new client comes onboard, install the product and database, but make sure not to make any optimizations, not even the basic indexes in the DB. Depending on the usage, the DB will get slower and slower in a few months. Then send a "consultant" who will simply run a script and add indexes etc and tes…

Car mechanics do this all the time, so what if an experienced mechanic can do a task in 1/10 the time, they always charge for the book time.

Mechanical work is straightforward though, and book time can be a bit liberal but is otherwise fair.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#252

Post by vumgl »

wdr1 wrote: post #109

Worked at Ticketmaster.

I worked at a company that was acquired by Ticketmaster, and I have a change to talk to one of the executives in casual way. They are not as bad as the may seem, but the business model is definitely intriguing. They go to a venue that hosts, say U2 for a concert. Say a U2 wants to sell a certain ticket for $100. Ticketmaster says: Look, If I get exclusive rights to sell your tickets, you will get not 95%, nor 100%, but you get 105% of the price of ticket, because I can charge whatever fees I want. So when you complain about Ticketmaster's high fees, hate then just slightly less, and hate U2 a bit more because they are ripping you off by pretending that Ticketmaster is the only bad guy.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#254

Post by joewee »

fao_ wrote: post #244
fucking_tragedy wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will always be someone who can find a moral reason that such systems need to exist. Engineers build weapons, after all.

But see, I can understand weapons building. The motivation is protective towards one's society, and that is the intended result, even if that might not be the actual case. Whereas the intention of building an oppressive system such as the one described above is, what, selfishness? Laziness? Programmers, because of the high-demand nature of our role, do not tend to be subject to the usual financial pressures that othe…

I’ve always looked at these systems as “if someone else built this, it would be worse.” Doesn’t the same moral conundrum exist anytime you build a system that dehumanizes people for profit. Ad networks? Drug trials?

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#255

Post by Aeolun »

armagon wrote: post #207

Its an entirely standard thing, but I feel it is unhappy knowing that my paycheque depends upon thousands of mobile game players watching advertising, and feel that it is ethically dubious that my job is to try to cram more ads down their throats.

It’s great. Just as long as you reward me for watching an ad as opposed to making them a forced part of the experience.

E.g. watching an ad to double my score/gems, sure. Making me watch an ad after every level before I can continue, hell no, that’s an instant uninstall.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#256

Post by nyxtom »

Ad retargeting analytics would be one. The ability to track even anonymous users in an attempt to “nudge” users towards purchase behavior felt especially wrong. I didn’t work at Facebook but this was definitely a selling point for their hiring team. The tough part about this is that most of the internet is funded by this single business model. Collect data and behavior about users and non users.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#257

Post by derefr »

fao_ wrote: post #244
fucking_tragedy wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will always be someone who can find a moral reason that such systems need to exist. Engineers build weapons, after all.

But see, I can understand weapons building. The motivation is protective towards one's society, and that is the intended result, even if that might not be the actual case. Whereas the intention of building an oppressive system such as the one described above is, what, selfishness? Laziness? Programmers, because of the high-demand nature of our role, do not tend to be subject to the usual financial pressures that othe…

Not saying this was likely, but one potential reason could be a kind of selfless penny-pinching.

Say you have a call center run as a co-op. You’ve got workers and HR people. Both the workers and HR people are shareholders. If you can eliminate the HR people, then the workers can each have a larger proportionate share for the same work. Automating HR eliminates the HR people.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#258

Post by asragab »

throwawaymath wrote: post #25

I've done a lot of work involving scraping, data analysis and reversing private API access from mobile applications. A lot of this work is legally defensible (if you do it correctly) and not particularly unethical. After doing a bunch of this type of work I started to accrue subject matter expertise in the area that led other companies to come to me with more questionable projects in mind. I turned down many of these…

Throwing in a guess for the second company, was it Zest Finance?

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but I couldn't help myself. I will ask for forgiveness (as I am sure we have all done in both technical and ethical matters)

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#259

Post by 3pt14159 »

throwawaymath wrote: post #116
3pt14159 wrote: post #41

I suspect you're not going to get many personal stories here because it would be self-incriminating. But I have a couple from some people I know in tech. 1. I know the guy who, pre-Snowden, actually designed many of the pieces of network gear needed for the dragnet. His perspective was basically: Yes it's wrong, but what do I know? I just design electronic circuits. 2. Same guy also mentioned how at another company h…

Was the second company Meraki? EDIT: I don't expect to receive an answer to this (and that's fine), but I'll give more color to my guess. Meraki had a side venture in internet connectivity-enabled location analytics which was more profitable than its actual router sales. This is one of the reasons why its acquisition price was so high. It has since contributed to a location analytics service within Cisco.

No, sorry.

Re: Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

#260

Post by 3pt14159 »

atmosx wrote: post #112
3pt14159 wrote: post #41

I suspect you're not going to get many personal stories here because it would be self-incriminating. But I have a couple from some people I know in tech. 1. I know the guy who, pre-Snowden, actually designed many of the pieces of network gear needed for the dragnet. His perspective was basically: Yes it's wrong, but what do I know? I just design electronic circuits. 2. Same guy also mentioned how at another company h…

I am not sure I understand the distinction you make between a government and the higher bidder? How can you be reasonably sure that your findings will not be used wrongfully by X gov official?

You can't, but if the NSA or CIA wanted to kill a bunch of people they could. Whereas ISIS and company can't. Not knowing who is buying your 0day is dangerous to public safety.
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