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Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

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251–260 of 444 posts

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#251
post #52

I'm a resident in a "neighborhood activist collective" and I made a self-hosted web site for the house. Now it's expanding into a web app that's a tool for the organization (planning, etc). It's also being set up for similar houses in the same city, and we plan to make it into a kind of federated small-scale "social network" built around our own principles and premises. Another aspect of the project comes from a "hou…

Sounds interesting! Any links you can provide to the project?

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#252
post #217
post #42

My biggest gripe with the "modern internet" is e-mail. MS and Google dominate the e-mail scene, and they are making it ever more unpleasant to run your own mailserver. They will frequently blackhole mails, without bounces, warnings or any recourse. I'm not sure what can be done about that, but it's certainly becoming an up hill battle.

Look, if you're using email to have actual conversations with other human beings then tech giants are certainly not dominating the email scene (except for Exchange). Running your own email server takes quite a bit of maintenance but as long as you're not using it for marketing you'll be fine.

> as long as you're not using it for marketing you'll be fine.

Really? That hasn't been my experience the last couple of years. I wasn't joking when I said that Google and MS routinely blackhole mails from my users to their users. These are legitimate mails. Sent by real people, to real people. Often people they've been conversing with for years.

You can play by the rules, set up SPF, DKIM, periodically check blacklist statuses and be perfectly fine, and suddenly mail still disappears. No bounces, and no ability to contact an MS or Google postmaster to shout at. This certainly isn't due to incompetence on their part, so I can only assume it's a strategy to frustrate mail server operators to simply give up and use their little walled e-mail garden.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#253
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By making your email something custom instead of @gmail, you're spending some energy, time, and money to protect against a perceived threat. I guess my real question is, what exactly is that threat, how damaging is it, and how likely is it to occur? By my mental math, I can't really justify spending even a few bucks, or more expensively, a few hours, protecting against some consequence that I can't really quantify at…

Yes. My girlfriend has a bellsouth.net email address (it's our ISP). Recently, Tumblr announced that anyone with an email address belonging to AT&T (and yes, bellsouth.net is owned by AT&T) will no longer be able to use said email address to log into Tumblr. I don't have a clue why, it is what it is. So now she's forced to get another email address to log into Tumblr. I got around that by creating an email address at…

Details at https://www.att.com/esupport/article.html#!/email-support/KM...

My guesses: Tumblr belongs to Yahoo. Yahoo had some agreement with AT&T to provide them services. The agreement is no more, AT&T customers can't use their AT&T email to login into Yahoo services anymore. I don't see why that should be technically our commercially necessary, but that's it.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like there's a typo in your first sentence. I could sort of figure out what you meant, but it took a bit of digging. EDIT: Never mind, I was straight-up wrong. Sorry!

* website-of-record should be your own.

That's good. I'd probably have used quotes to indicate I'm using a phrase that's made up or not very common. Your "website of record" should be your own. So-called. If you will.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the founder of Neocities thinks it's time to instate a distributed web https://blog.neocities.org/blog/2015/09/08/its-time-for-the-...

ok how will neocities or anybody hosting a node be compensated? How will the artists whose works are being distributed in this manner be compensated?

How sites would make money? I'm not really thinking about that too much right now, but I suppose sites could do all the usual things they do with the current web (advertising, accepting payments via credit card gateways, Bitcoin, Patreon, etc). It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing proposition and it certainly isn't to me. Some functionality will still require a centralized service​, just not the entire thing.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#256
post #210
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Registering a domain name may as well be magic to a large portion of the population.

The process of registering the domain behind the scenes might be a bit magic but buying one and pointing it at a hosting provider certainly isn't.

You're ignoring (or overestimating) the enormous segment of the population who wouldn't even have an Internet presence if it didn't come with the phone, and getting the phone was already the one of the most mentally challenging things they've done in years.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Don't rely on Facebook or Google for login or integrations." I think this is a really important point. When I see services that give me a choice of either 1)logging in with Google or 2) logging in with FB, I don't do either. I simply elect to not use that service.

For me and my students -- we always use a google login. With 35 students all using 4 or 5 online services each with a login.... There is no way we can keep control of all those separate login details. There needs to be a central control over login. Sure, login details are pretty old skool bonkers. I'm going to get downvoted to oblivion, but in the real world where I have to hand a class of 35 students over to another…

Google login is great. The problem is just when a site only provides a Google login or Facebook login, and not a site-specific login.

Which does seem to be a passing fad. "Log in with your Facebook account or go away" was a thing a couple years ago, but now most sites do offer an independent login method.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#258
post #60

Make your website of record your website. Make social media platforms and others (e.g. Google) secondary to that. Don't let Google and Facebook control how you build your website. I am amazed at companies that take their websites and subjugate them to their Facebook page. You may gain social attention but you are handing over control. Never, ever, ever say to contact me go to facebook.com/xxxx or my email address is…

Adding to that: don't host your content on other domains either. Beware of insidious threats to the WWW, like AMP.

Awesomely Malicious Performace

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#259
post #42

My biggest gripe with the "modern internet" is e-mail. MS and Google dominate the e-mail scene, and they are making it ever more unpleasant to run your own mailserver. They will frequently blackhole mails, without bounces, warnings or any recourse. I'm not sure what can be done about that, but it's certainly becoming an up hill battle.

I have been using https://www.zoho.com/ for email hosting and its good.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use another single sign on service? Why do you have to use Google? Google is the largest advertiser in the world, and is more and more encroaching on the free and open web.

> Why not use another single sign on service? Look. I'm not an idiot. I write open source. I love free and open web. Google login works. We use use Gmail - it works. We use google classroom - it just works. Most websites offer Google Login - it just works. When you have 30 students and you waste 2 minutes logging into a website -- that is 2 x 30 == 60 minutes of student learning lost. Little things like that add up.

It's not 60 minutes of learning, it's 2 minutes of learning. 2 minutes went by. You're not running a factory so you don't need to use factory-style productivity metrics. Anyway what's the hurry? What could be so crucial that not a minute can be spared? Maybe this is why school is uninspiring? The feeling of being on a breakneck treadmill, never having time for anything? Education shouldn't be about quantity, it's about quality. But I know what you're up against.
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