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Ask HN: Does anyone actually hire from 'developer bootcamps'?

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Re: Ask HN: Does anyone actually hire from 'developer bootcamps'?

#241

Yes, I work at Refinery29 (obligatory www.corporate.r29.com/careers/), a large women's fashion website in NYC. Of our 30 person tech team, we have had about 5 people coming out of these bootcamps, and they are all awesome. Although I think your idea of who goes to these bootcamps is pretty off. These aren't people who "had never opened a text editor in their lives." Some of them are people who were working in science…

Hm. So since companies do hire from dev bootcamps, are the candidates quizzed about CS theory during the application process? It seems pretty standard to be asked about data structures and algorithms for engineering positions and I can't imagine someone attending these bootcamps to also be well-versed at those over the course of their quick training.

Whiteboard coding questions aren't as difficult as people often believe. IMO the hardest part is just getting used to programming without any outside resources on a whiteboard.

The problem is that people don't practice them because they believe that these questions test some sort of intrinsic, unchangeable quality of how smart you are, which is totally false.

But if people practiced them more, they would realized that there is only 10-20 questions that you can be asked, and everything else is just some minor variation of the most common questions, and you don't specialized training to do project Euler or glassdoor.com questions.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone actually hire from 'developer bootcamps'?

#242
Full disclosure, I’m both a graduate from a coding bootcamp and an employee at that same company (Bitmaker Labs).

There are quite a few assumptions being made in messages on here. I think that’s partially because coding bootcamps are very different from one another. For instance, the students we have at Bitmaker Labs typically have little-to-no experience coding, whereas shawndrost of Hack Reactor points out that many of their students have coded on the side for a year or two. I can’t speak to how everyone in this industry recruits, but I can share what I’ve seen in my experience with Bitmaker Labs over the past two years:

- The number of open web development positions is exceptionally high and the barriers to entry (i.e. prerequisite diplomas, degrees, etc.) are very low in many cases.

Several people have already touched on this point. Ultimately, a student’s abilities are more important than their credentials. So when you have an industry with a huge number of open positions, and students with practical knowledge and a thirst for learning, it’s no wonder placement rates are so high at many bootcamps. For us, over 90% of our students find industry work within three months of completing the course. Bootcamps also do a lot of work to build relationships with companies that are open to hiring junior developers and tailoring their programs to fit employers needs. This can help open doors that are otherwise very hard to find when you are learning on your own.

- The job openings are for multiple types of programming languages, but the people hired into these positions do not always have experience with those languages. Startups and larger companies are looking for a great cultural fit in combination with decent coding skills.

As I was saying above, many jobs that we are able to find for students are not posted online. Beyond simply opening doors, we work hard with our students to build networking skills and an understanding of the job market so that they also how to create job openings for themselves. Many companies are focused on finding someone they will want to be around long-term – employees who can integrate well into a fast-paced culture and who will be able to adapt to a changing tech stack. I think this is one big reason companies are willing to hire developers with a lower skill level or limited experience. Bootcamp students are really hungry to keep learning, a bootcamp is just the beginning of their coding career.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone actually hire from 'developer bootcamps'?

#243

Thought I'd give a contrarian perspective here. I was hiring for a telehealth startup based in NYC and got some referrals to some recent General Assembly grads. I bit and went ahead and scheduled some interviews. It was a total joke, honestly. The graduates glossed over the entry-level interview questions with a lot of handwaving (I would ask them things like "How would you do x given y?") and quoted rates upwards of…

Sorry your experience was bad. All I can suggest is that other bootcamps may be better than GA?

At Hack Reactor, the instructors never shied away from CS fundamentals. For example, less than two weeks into the course, my partner and I wrote an N-Queens Solver in Javascript, using bitwise logic. We even got it to work in multiple threads using Web Workers. We wrote about it here: http://dsernst.com/2014/12/22/nqueens/

I'm loving my experience so far, and couldn't recommend it more highly.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone actually hire from 'developer bootcamps'?

#244

I got my BA in journalism and Chinese. I started coding on my own and eventually found Bloc, an online bootcamp with courses in web dev, frontend, UX design, iOS and Android development. I took their web dev course little over a year ago. I now work at Bloc as a web developer (oh, we're hiring engineers by the way). It worked for me and it's worked for tons of our students.

Hi, I just applied to Bloc.io, any chance I could speak with about it?

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone actually hire from 'developer bootcamps'?

#245
(Disclaimer: I founded a coding bootcamp called DevMountain.)

I definitely believe it is realistic to get a programming job without a degree in computer science or a related field.

Here's why: Computer science degrees (as a whole) have been greatly devalued recently. I've talked to dozens of employers who are frustrated with "CS grads" who know nothing but archaic languages and have no practical, modern coding experience. Most assuredly YMMV, but universities are doing a really poor job of keeping their curriculum modern and employable. Having a CS degree doesn't make you an engineer any more than studying Latin makes you a fluent francophone. Employers are much more interested in competency and performance than they are with credentials and grades. With software engineering, it's all about what you can build. Not only that, but a college degree isn't a great measurement of talent or skill.

If you can demonstrate competency or skill proficiently in an area that is in high demand for employers, you will be offered a job.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone actually hire from 'developer bootcamps'?

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. So since companies do hire from dev bootcamps, are the candidates quizzed about CS theory during the application process? It seems pretty standard to be asked about data structures and algorithms for engineering positions and I can't imagine someone attending these bootcamps to also be well-versed at those over the course of their quick training.

Whiteboard coding questions aren't as difficult as people often believe. IMO the hardest part is just getting used to programming without any outside resources on a whiteboard. The problem is that people don't practice them because they believe that these questions test some sort of intrinsic, unchangeable quality of how smart you are, which is totally false. But if people practiced them more, they would realized tha…

> But if people practiced them more, they would realized that there is only 10-20 questions that you can be asked, and everything else is just some minor variation of the most common questions, and you don't specialized training to do project Euler or glassdoor.com questions.

My gut reaction to this is that you're not asking very good questions if it's such simple variations. Unless you're being excessively reductive in that all of programming can be done in just a handful of compiler operations, and thus only a handful of programming questions could be asked.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone actually hire from 'developer bootcamps'?

#248
We've phone interviewed a bunch of candidates from a couple of the Rails boot camps here in Boston. The candidates have been very mixed in quality, but we've found 3 that we not only brought in and made it through our in person interview but also got job offers. Usually we offer them a 3 month internship. At the end of which we'll offer them a salaried position if they turned out to be as good as we suspected.

We also treat the internship as a real internship, not a contract-to-hire. We expect to be teaching them.

As others have said here in one way or another. The good ones are ones who were coding anyway and just needed some help leveling / focusing their skills. The ones who didn't have a clue about programming when they started, don't come out much better IMNSHO.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone actually hire from 'developer bootcamps'?

#250
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stated right in the quote you copied "entry-level talent". Are you entry level? If not, then your recruiting emails mean little. If yes, then your assessment of other entry-level programmers who happen to have come from bootcamps is perhaps less valuable.

Not necessarily. It is possible stale2002 gets emails from recruiters simply because he's on a list somewhere. Recruiters are not known for investigating people thoroughly before bulk sending of emails.

I can testify to that.

I had done some SharePoint front end design when I was on an editorial team and we needed some features in our SharePoint site in 2008, but had to take any mention of SharePoint out of my resume because I got too many contacts from recruiters looking for a SharePoint architect.

I'm also a Zend Certified Engineer in PHP (don't hate). I'd never worked with Zend Framework, but would get very regular recruiter contacts because they didn't know the difference between "Zend" (a company) and "Zend Framework" (an MVC framework that was just one of their products).

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