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Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

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Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#241

Post by marcus_holmes »

amiga_500 wrote: post #172
goatherders wrote: post #163

Surprised that no one has mentioned that you should first review the employment doc you signed. In many (most) cases any IP you create does belong to them. Getting a lawyer involved may just turn in to an expensive and antagonistic experience that winds up with you simply ending up....with them owning the IP. One thing to consider- spin off your side project and try to get your employer as your first customer or as t…

> In many (most) cases any IP you create does belong to them. Why do Americans consider themselves free?

it's the same in UK, EU and Australian law.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#242

Post by RocketSyntax »

goatherders wrote: post #163

Surprised that no one has mentioned that you should first review the employment doc you signed. In many (most) cases any IP you create does belong to them. Getting a lawyer involved may just turn in to an expensive and antagonistic experience that winds up with you simply ending up....with them owning the IP. One thing to consider- spin off your side project and try to get your employer as your first customer or as t…

Yeah, this is written into my non-compete. Going to renegotiate it when promoted.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#243

Post by michaelbrave »

trulyrandom wrote: post #174
amiga_500 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many (most) cases any IP you create does belong to them. Why do Americans consider themselves free?

Because they are free to choose to not work for a company that has such an IP clause in its employee contract. They are also free to negotiate a change to that clause.

Ah yes, the choice of working or not working.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#244

Post by rodw »

ryandrake wrote: post #216
rodw wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't. IANAL but I'm pretty sure that no matter what the contract says an employer's claim on work that an employee does on her own time and with her own equipment and unrelated to the company's IP is not "obviously" something that will stand up in court. I don't know if there is relevant case law but this seems like the kind of claim that is likely to be invalidated in court. Of course at least one and possibly…

These things all depend on the country and state/province in which you are employed. Whenever this topic comes up on HN, all these armchair lawyers come out of the woodwork and start making blanket statements about what they are "pretty sure" is allowed, but this issue is dependent on what's in your contract, and what your national and/or local laws allow companies to claim. "Talk to a lawyer" is the best answer to s…

> "Talk to a lawyer" is the best answer to something like this

Agreed. That's probably the best advice for any non-trivial legal issue or question. I hope no one read my answer as contradicting that.

That said, is there _any_ example, in _any_ jurisdiction where a court has upheld an employer's right to IP that meets those three criteria (employee's own time, own equipment and unrelated to the employers business)? I would hate to be in position where I'd need to find out, but I'm curious if this has _ever_ been tested in court. It just seems like a ridiculously over-reaching claim.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#246

Post by techslave »

yahyaheee wrote: post #224

Your employer is also a huge POS for doing this, if you know people with pull in the OSS community or software community in general you could threaten to make a stink over it. This is terrible behavior on their part.

How so? Corporations are amoral. Their job is to maximize profit. This is something of value to them, produced (presumably) under employment contract that entitles them to it.

They are obligated to take ownership.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#247

Post by amiga_500 »

michaelbrave wrote: post #243
trulyrandom wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are free to choose to not work for a company that has such an IP clause in its employee contract. They are also free to negotiate a change to that clause.

Ah yes, the choice of working or not working.

I choose to live on the street and not pay my wages via tribute to usurers! I'm free! (no loitering).

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#249

Post by amiga_500 »

ican1 wrote: post #175
amiga_500 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many (most) cases any IP you create does belong to them. Why do Americans consider themselves free?

This comment is unnecessarily antagonistic. The government here doesn't intrude as much on private employment contracts as in Europe. Maybe as a result the salaries in the US are much higher and unemployment rate over time also much lower.

> intrude as much on private employment

Is the state 'intruding' when they preserve your other rights?

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#250

Post by [deleted] »

rvnx wrote: post #158
greggman2 wrote: post #39

IANAL and I'm sure this will get downvoted since people won't like what I have to say. I'd concentrate on the positive rather than the negative, that if you get to work on this project via your employer from this point on you'll be getting paid to do the thing you were doing for free. Getting paid for past work seems unlikely. You already admitted you didn't care about compensation by open sourcing the project. You w…

Well, for Google it's not that ideal. Google claims 100% of the IP done inside and outside of your work. "As part of your employment agreement, Google most likely owns intellectual property (IP) you create while at the company. Because Google’s business interests are so wide and varied, this likely applies to any personal project you have. That includes new development on personal projects you created prior to employ…

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