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Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

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Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#241

Post by not_the_nsa »

yanokwa wrote: post #124

I have a Ph.D. in CS from the University of Washington. I'm glad I did it, but it's not for most people. Academic research is like a marathon and the Ph.D. is like a marathon training program. If you don't want to run a marathon, you probably don't need a marathon training program. Yes, a marathon training program is an interesting and rewarding way to improve your running, but it's very likely you can find equally i…

For context, this dude went on to create software that is used for electronic data capture all over the world, and build one of the most inclusive, diverse, and friendly communities around it I've had the pleasure of participating in. The drive behind his PhD, and what came out of it, made my life and that of many researchers and volunteers in our neck of the woods easier.

This webcast sheds some light on his motivation and perspective: https://www.geekwire.com/2013/geekwire-podcast-windows-8-ash...

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#242

Post by dominotw »

halfarmbandit wrote: post #178
dominotw wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your degree isn't what makes your life interesting or not, nor is your job title, nor is your job, nor is how much you get paid. So a day laborer in India has equal chance at "interesting life" than a researcher at google ?

Comment OP is trying to express that life is what you make of it. A PhD or an industry job at google etc etc won’t make your life interesting by themselves, but you need to make it be.

well a day laborer in India doesn't have many avenues to 'make his life'. Why do ppl think he decided to " make his life" to be a day laborer.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#243

Post by dominotw »

debatem1 wrote: post #180
dominotw wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your degree isn't what makes your life interesting or not, nor is your job title, nor is your job, nor is how much you get paid. So a day laborer in India has equal chance at "interesting life" than a researcher at google ?

I have been a day laborer (not in India) and worked at Google (not as a researcher) so I might be close enough to both worlds. While my time at Google was very exciting for me, it didn't yield any stories that friends or family ask me to retell. Compared to "the time my boss asked me to catch running circular saws he would slide down a roof at me", "that time I found a complicated XSS" just lacks pizzazz. And since I…

> my life at Google was actually one of the least interesting

I am assuming, you don't really care about living an interesting life as you traded an interesting life for one that insn't.

Also, when I say "day laborer" I am not talking about educated people who do that for a while. I am talking about ppl stuck in that situation with no way out.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#244

Post by debatem1 »

dominotw wrote: post #243
debatem1 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been a day laborer (not in India) and worked at Google (not as a researcher) so I might be close enough to both worlds. While my time at Google was very exciting for me, it didn't yield any stories that friends or family ask me to retell. Compared to "the time my boss asked me to catch running circular saws he would slide down a roof at me", "that time I found a complicated XSS" just lacks pizzazz. And since I…

> my life at Google was actually one of the least interesting I am assuming, you don't really care about living an interesting life as you traded an interesting life for one that insn't. Also, when I say "day laborer" I am not talking about educated people who do that for a while. I am talking about ppl stuck in that situation with no way out.

I was a day laborer before I went into tech or got an education. And (like most people, I suspect) I do care about living an interesting life-- I just didn't know that I was trading that away. Didn't figure it out for a long time, actually.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#245

Post by crispyambulance »

dominotw wrote: post #243
debatem1 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been a day laborer (not in India) and worked at Google (not as a researcher) so I might be close enough to both worlds. While my time at Google was very exciting for me, it didn't yield any stories that friends or family ask me to retell. Compared to "the time my boss asked me to catch running circular saws he would slide down a roof at me", "that time I found a complicated XSS" just lacks pizzazz. And since I…

> my life at Google was actually one of the least interesting I am assuming, you don't really care about living an interesting life as you traded an interesting life for one that insn't. Also, when I say "day laborer" I am not talking about educated people who do that for a while. I am talking about ppl stuck in that situation with no way out.

interesting != happy != success != wealth

These are all different, often orthogonal things.

There are people who are "stuck" in a socio-economic dead-end who still lead happy and interesting lives, nonetheless. They are able to take their situation in life and make the best of it.

The OP can do the same. He certainly has far more opportunities than a day-laborer or subsistence farmer. In a way, that abundance of choice is a burden. But nowhere is it written that PHD's are guaranteed to be "interesting", or even more interesting than anyone else.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#246

Post by timwaagh »

A masters is already quite good. It should make your life more interesting than a bachelor's. Think about a decent job, no questions asked, you might even have a reasonable choice on what type of job you will take. Don't expect too much though.

Now with a PhD you could be the envy of your community. Imagine posting about pursuing your PhD in Australia or posting on Facebook about the space entity named after your research group. From what I know phds like to post on fb a lot. That is not to deride them. Most of their achievements are genuine and worthy of a like or three. A PhD is quite something. But it is no guarantee. You could get a PhD and still end up at the bottom end of the totem pole. One of my friends is like that. Spent years as a lecturer in China only to choose unemployment for a decade when he got back. But yeah. You have to mess up quite badly. I would argue that even in his case his life became more interesting because of it.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#247

Post by musicale »

fightme wrote: post #101

CS PhD from Stanford in dynamic program analysis. Lost all my friends. Ghosted by companies for jobs directly related to my research. Everyone I knew who went directly into industry is doing way better than me. My salary has only tracked inflation. I sorely regret the decision and consider it to have fundamentally ruined my life beyond repair.

A quick google search says that grad students are 6 times more likely to experience depression than the general population, so that is something to keep in mind!

And a survey at Berkeley (your rivals/colleagues across the bay) found nearly half of Ph.D. students showing signs of depression.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Grad-School-Is-Hard-on-Men...

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#248

Post by thiago_fm »

If you don't like to study so much and to become a professor/researcher. Please don't take me in the wrong way, but you are just wasting your time.

I also wanted to do a master and PHD for the same reasons that you do. But for financial reasons I couldn't afford it at the time, I felt sad: I wanted to be "smarter" on paper than others. I've did what a loser would do: find a job.

I've found a job and since then, I've just looked in the academia a few times back, but never went back. I've looked back only because I've wanted to maybe do a bit of ML. Anyways, I think you need to find yourself there.

If you work a few years and don't like it, you can go back. I also think that you have a few complexes that could be better handled by a psychologist, such as, you think that getting a PhD would be a huge intellectual challenge, when you are about to finish your master... Yet, it isn't even hard, you just need to pump infinite hours into that and want to become a researcher/professor or find a job in ML/AI(nowadays, you don't even need that to find a job anymore).

I had a lot of growth on my career and all my friends that went to academia just talk to me about that choice with a lot of regret. I don't doubt that they know more than me as they had many years of study time, while I was working full time and building a career/family, but it isn't that important to me anymore. I would give it a go, maybe quit even your master and try to work.

Of course, it is all your own responsibility. Don't blame me for your choices, but make up your mind and take charge of your life. I did back then, and I'm happy Today to have done that, all that because I had a financial problem that didn't allow me to have that, I couldn't really make that choice and I quite liked the fact that I didn't have to choose. I was very insecure at the time and that changed a lot and I consider even silly the fears and thoughts I had back in the days. I wish that this helps you somehow. Also, if you then find out that you want to get that PhD, it is fine! The most important thing is that you find what is important for you.

Cheers

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#249

Post by srinathkrishna »

peterwoerner wrote: post #78

I have a PhD (in mech engineering) and work in industry. My experience was that I basically had to pick up a new physics set and tool set every year as I jumped from algorithm development, to constitutive model development, machine learning, and quantum computing. In all cases they were tackling problems in different areas: new toolset to learn, new math to learn and new physics to learn. I thoroughly enjoy working o…

This is fantastic. I fetishize learning and I'm quite envious of the stuff that you got to learn. For me, the ability to learn hard things is what a PhD trains you for. Yes, it's not financially rewarding in the first few years of your career but with the right tools, mindset and some guidance from peers and one's advisor, you can put a PhD to good use.

That said, I'm not a PhD. How do you recommend one learning multi-disciplinary skills these without one?

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#250

Post by dominotw »

crispyambulance wrote: post #245
dominotw wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my life at Google was actually one of the least interesting I am assuming, you don't really care about living an interesting life as you traded an interesting life for one that insn't. Also, when I say "day laborer" I am not talking about educated people who do that for a while. I am talking about ppl stuck in that situation with no way out.

interesting != happy != success != wealth These are all different, often orthogonal things. There are people who are "stuck" in a socio-economic dead-end who still lead happy and interesting lives, nonetheless. They are able to take their situation in life and make the best of it. The OP can do the same. He certainly has far more opportunities than a day-laborer or subsistence farmer. In a way, that abundance of choi…

> He certainly has far more opportunities than a day-laborer or subsistence farmer.

Exactly. That contradicts the totally meaningless platitude "life is what you make of it".

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