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Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

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Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#231
Good code should be designed such that it's easy to find where things are to begin with.

If you need an IDE, that just means your code is a mess.

Ironically, the more messy the code is, and so the more you need the IDE, the more likely it is that the IDE will have trouble coping with the code, becoming extremely slow, or randomly failing to jump into some functions.

Ensuring your codebase remains workable without an IDE is actually a good litmus test for quality.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#232
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I greatly enjoyed this comment of yours daltonpinto. Thank you. I do not rejoice with code bases where every file has no logic or code in it but there are hundreds of methods and files with everything spread out. I have no idea how those projects fit together because the actual logic is spread out. For my personal side project hobby work it's all in one file.

> I have no idea how those projects fit together because the actual logic is spread out. There are two kind of mazes: - those that are so tangled up that you can't make out any kind of structure. - those that are so regular that you can't make out any kind of structure.

Exactly!

Not because it is split it means that was well split.

If you can reason where something should be, it may be badly organized.

Even single file projects can be organized.

If is small enough and makes sense, why not?

But even in a small file, how is it organized? Utility functions maybe at bottom so you keep business logic together and visible? Maybe some other logic to make it cleaner? The way functions are named follow some convention? What about variables?

I once read one opinion that software developers had more in common to artists and writers than engineers. Writing code is like an art of expressing yourself well to your peers in a way that a computer will also execute what you meant, not the opposite.

The computer can understand whatever entangled mess you write, other people (which may include your future self) may not.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#233

I work with two types of LSP/LLM-averse programmers: 1. The HLSP user This group does use an LSP, it turns out, only via you as the conduit: you are their Human Language Server Protocol. They'll ask, ‘can we pair today?’. From that point, navigating code, looking up method names and signatures, and flagging syntax errors before runtime or compile time is your job. How they find their way around when you're not there…

LSP enables you to program as you go along, without ever understanding the structure of the whole program. If you don't want to use an LSP you pretty much must understand the whole program you are adding code to

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#234
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know about VSCode's terminal, and the few times I've used it seems like an afterthought, bolted on, to the primary function of the program as an editor and file navigator . I don't live in the editor. I live in the shell. The editor is a sub function of living in the shell.

I actually think the VSC terminal is one of the few saving graces it has. Maybe not so much on *nix. It works well enough on Mac, but it really shines on Windows where you’ll have a much easier time running powershell, GitShell and WSL terminals within VSC than outside of it. It also has really good integration with the various Azure CLI tools. I don’t think VSC is a very good IDE though. I have no idea why a Vim use…

> I don’t think VSC is a very good IDE though

As someone who has only used inferior IDEs to VSCode (grimaces at the thought of Xcode) and who thinks that VSCode is very good, what exactly am I missing from better IDEs?

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#235

This question reminds me of the first time I met a blind programmer. I asked him how he managed to code, and he replied with something that stayed with me: a good programmer should organize software in such a way that every piece of code has a clear and logical place. The organization should be so intuitive that anyone could build a mental model of the structure and navigate it easily, even without seeing it. It felt…

Wow, excellent insight from these programmers. Very cool. Will be keeping this in mind!

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#236

Been using Debian and vim for almost 25 years now. Tried many IDE's but they're distracting, bloated and slow. My main language is python and for that I use jedi-vim (which allows me to jump to a definition), fzf with ripgrep to easily open files and search for specific things, and ALE that runs ruff formatting and linting. Tmux to keep my terminals organized and openbox to make it stylish and stay out of the way. No…

> and sure as hell no AI nonsense. You're emotionally invested. Not wise.

I tried chatgpt and claude, several times over the past year. To get it to say anything sensical is a laborious game of prompt trial and error, and even then in the end the code is of junior level at best, containing subtle bugs, inefficient instructions and needs a lot of refactoring. Not sure how emotions come into play, I tested a tool and found it useless to me. I'm much faster writing my own code, that I understand deeply, can reason about and learn from. I was never a fan of copy pasting big chunks of stack overflow that I didn't understand, which is exactly what LLM coding tools facilitate.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#237
Ah, yes, autocomplete: the propagator of typos. Write it wrong once, have it copied wrong everywhere.

Go-to-definition: the band-aid for overengineering. Write 37 levels of indirection, don't pay the price.

AI programming: now you don't even have to pretend you understand the code! Bonus point: sometimes it generates from StackOverflow, but from the question, not the answer.

These are good tools, but it's easy to figure out who uses them to help themselves, and who couldn't write code at all if it wasn't for these tools.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#238
I've recently experienced a sharp decline in my ability to remember anything code-related. At one point I looked at the code I wrote the day before and it felt as if I don't even know the language it's written in. I was attributing it to the age, but this thread made me realize it coincided precicely with the switch to using IDEs after 15 years of getting by with a text editor.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#239
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I work almost exclusively in Emacs without the modern LSP-based tools I'm wondering how many people in the comments would misinterpret it as "Emacs is outdated"/"Emacs does not have modern LSP-based tools"

I was about to switch from Emacs when I found TIDE for Typescript development (which is what I do), and it kept me in Emacs for years longer. Recently though I couldn't resist experimenting with Copilot and I switched to VS code for it, after 32 years. Is there a good Emacs module for it by now?

I don't know whether there is Copilot module for Emacs, sorry. I'm more of a fan of gptel approach https://github.com/karthink/gptel with explicit context and instructions.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#240
post #150
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm one of C# developers who operate predominately in the Unity3d slums. This isn't familiar to me. The closest thing coming to mind to me is mixing up IEnumerable and IEnumerator when trying to define a coroutine.

IQuerable Inherits IEnumerable and extends it with functionality to lessen the memory loaded when querying a collection (typically when reading from a database). Using IEnumerable can increase memory usage significantly compared to IQuerable. Not every C# developer knows the difference, in my region of the world it’s an infamous mistake and is often the first thing you look for when tasked with improving bottlenecks…

Ah this explains why I'm not familiar with misusing IQueryables. My domain is predominately in memory.

Thank you for the explanation.

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