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Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

#231
I think the reason for Firefox lagging behind in market share can be explained with an overarching theme of "bad management", which may have contributed to some of these problems which chipped away at their chance for success.

> At a crucial stage years ago when IE was clearly dying and many people were considering different web browsers, Firefox's UI and overall performance felt extraordinarily slow in comparison to alternatives. Additionally, as a developer, the experience of building Chrome extensions was much more pleasant there than in Firefox which really soured me on them. It's not like Mozilla has bad developers, but they might have been trying to work on too many projects at once with the financial resources they had available. Even if Firefox has subsequently caught up, peoples' perceptions might take a while to change.

> Whether or not you agree with this, there was a growing perception that Mozilla was moving in a "woke" political direction that seemed to be at conflict with the overall drive towards an open web that many people initially supported them for. Even if the intent of articles like "WE NEED MORE THAN DEPLATFORMING" was genuinely good, their messaging was "pants-on-head regarded" given that many influential tech people supported Mozilla specifically to keep the open web alive. If Mozilla did anything to put that perception of their support at risk, they poisoned their brand for a lot of tech people who tell their friends and family what browser they can be using. Many of these people moved on to browsers such as Brave that seem to be much firmer in at least trying to give a very clear and consistent messaging about what they're all about.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

#232

I was a diehard Firefox user in the aughts, running a bunch of extensions and recommending it to people. I switched to Chrome the first day it became available, because it was just so much faster. You don't need a monopoly or advertising to grow a product that sells itself that well. (Those absolutely did come later.)

> I switched to Chrome the first day it became available, because it was just so much faster. This hasn't been the case for a long time.

I did eventually switch back to Firefox in ~2018 after they jettisoned their legacy cruft and got fast again (I don't know the technical specifics).

Re: Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Firefox Multi-Account Containers do things that Chrome profiles can't do at all.

the opposite is true, too, since "Clear History" in Chrome Profiles behaves correctly and (AFAIK) is scoped just to that Profile unlike our container friend: https://github.com/mozilla/multi-account-containers/issues/3... I still use them because combined with https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/open-url-in-c... ( https://github.com/honsiorovskyi/open-url-in-container ) is a game changer for my workflow bu…

To my understanding: the built-in "Junk" container auto-clears history, as well as "In Private" boundaries apply per usual for any container you open "In Private". Containers that I truly need to regularly clear history on, divorced from the rest of my Profile go into their own Firefox Profile. MAC is on top of/in addition to Firefox Profiles.

Multi-Account Container nicely reduces the need to juggle different Firefox Profiles, but it doesn't eliminate it. (I certainly still use a mixture of both for a myriad of reasons.)

Re: Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

#234
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anecdotally, everyone I know that used Firefox has stuck with it or deepened there reliance on it I find this interesting, because I literally don't know a single person who uses FF regularly anymore, even amongst my hacker friends. 10 years ago, 100% of them did.

Sample size = 1 In my life I've always come back to Firefox at some point, for various reasons. But I'm currently NOT using it anymore: - on my personal laptop I'm using Safari because battery life is my #1 priority, and Safari is the best in this particular category. I'm also using Safari on my iPhone because it works well enough, and I find favorites and tabs sync useful - on my pro laptop I used to use Firefox Dev…

> I'm also using Safari on my iPhone because it works well enough, and I find favorites and tabs sync useful

I've been very happy with Firefox Sync using the iOS Firefox. (Even if that Firefox is "just" a wrapper around Safari on iOS, it still has all the sync tools I need, which yes are very useful.)

> But I've recently switched to Arc and I love it. I've tried vertical tabs in the past on Firefox but the experience sucks, it's half baked and ugly.

Arc does seem interesting. Its current macOS-only focus makes it a non-starter for me, but I'm glad it works well for your workflows. I have been switching back and forth lately between TST and Sideberry in Firefox trying to find which one I like the most for vertical tabs. It is something that I feel the wish that out-of-the-box Firefox had just a tiny bit more polish about, but I do appreciate that extensions can help a lot there and there are multiple options. (However, especially now that Chromium Edge has vertical tabs out of the box that seems like a sign that there is more mainstream interest today and I'd love to see Firefox do some sort of polished design pass.) That's not yet a showstopper for me, but I feel it.

Battery life has been a lot less of an issue for me than memory usage (Firefox could be better there sometimes in my estimation, they are not bad it, just I've seen others do better), but I can certainly understand that complaint.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

#235

Firefox security is very very bad. I don't know about it's speed, but AFAIK chrome is one of the fastest and lightweight on laptops. But mainly it's Firefox security. Though I'm not really sure how many people are actually informed about Firefox security. They are also totally reliant on Google. Google can decide to tell Mozilla to use only Manifest V3 and other because of their funding. People are worried about that…

though strangely chrome uses the security libraries from firefox. hmm.

Doesn't mean anything.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

#236
On desktop, I use Firefox, Chrome, Edge (and sometimes Safari) interchangeably and sometimes at the same time. On mobile, I use Firefox and Chrome interchangeably.

Honestly, I notice no different in performance, look or feel. Sometimes I have to check which one I am actually in.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

#237
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sample size = 1 In my life I've always come back to Firefox at some point, for various reasons. But I'm currently NOT using it anymore: - on my personal laptop I'm using Safari because battery life is my #1 priority, and Safari is the best in this particular category. I'm also using Safari on my iPhone because it works well enough, and I find favorites and tabs sync useful - on my pro laptop I used to use Firefox Dev…

> I'm also using Safari on my iPhone because it works well enough, and I find favorites and tabs sync useful I've been very happy with Firefox Sync using the iOS Firefox. (Even if that Firefox is "just" a wrapper around Safari on iOS, it still has all the sync tools I need, which yes are very useful.) > But I've recently switched to Arc and I love it. I've tried vertical tabs in the past on Firefox but the experience…

> is something that I feel the wish that out-of-the-box Firefox had just a tiny bit more polish about

Honestly I'm mad at Firefox for missing this train. They saw the success of vertical tabs extension, so it was a perfect feature to experiment on, UX wise.

I'm mad that Arc is not a project born from Mozilla's teams, based on Firefox.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

#238
I've switched to Arc. Firefox is okay, but it has become the new Opera, lots of features but appeals to a niche. And like Opera, websites tend to break on it. Chrome is the new IE, sluggish, but everyone uses it because of the brand name. Edge is like Netscape, a former champion failing to regain market share with a superior product.

IMO Firefox's flaws is that

1. It doesn't have the same compatibility as the chromium stuff. Especially add ons. It's similar to the Huawei app store.

2. It's too focused on performance but not really UX. Arc is doing great with UX without hurting too much on performance. There's no visible improvements and unlike Arc, it doesn't do a good job of educating users on how to do things better.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

#239
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't use uBlock Origin on iOS?

Every time I have even the slightest mild thought of trying iOS again, I learn something like this which ensures I will not do it.

You can adblock at the DNS level using the AdGuard DNS plug-in for iOS. Not an app: it’s a system plug-in - https://adguard.com/en/blog/encrypted-dns-ios-14.html. It’s extremely effective across all apps that use third-party supplied ads. The only apps it cannot adblock on are those who serve up ads from the same source as their content, such as Pinterest and YouTube.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Firefox have such a low market share anyways?

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a developer on a team of developers for a large data and interaction-rich website and we've watched the stats morph over the past 8 years from 23% mobile to 23% desktop. It's been a very swift revolution. I do a lot of QA on my phone now. I have been a Firefox proponent for at least ten years and resolved to do most of my QA on FF since I was most familiar with its features. Something that is very irksome about…

You can't use uBlock Origin on iOS?

No. But you can block third-party ads on all apps that display them by using the AdGuard DNS plug-in for iOS. Not an app - it’s a system plug-in: https://adguard.com/en/blog/encrypted-dns-ios-14.html. It’s extremely effective across all apps that use third-party supplied ads. The only apps it cannot adblock on are those who serve up ads from the same source as their content, such as Pinterest and YouTube.
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