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Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

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Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#231
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume there is no one thing to put a finger on. But there are some signs one can take a note of. Generally speaking, to name a few: - The ability and willingness of the management to invest time and resources into development of proper work processes and infrustructure (imagine having to code without version control in a team) - Understanding that things aren't always done the moment they appear to be done -…

> It comes down to understanding the nuances, and mutual respect, I think? I think that's a great summary. Look out for companies that try to manage what they don't understand. It can lead to the 'car mechanic phenomenon'. I call it that because it's like the feeling some get when they get the bill from the car mechanic. They can't fix it themselves, so how do they know if someone's pulling one over on them?

100%. The companies and programs I've been a part of that failed, this is why. I've been meetings and made what to most engineers would be a truism, and been told by leaders that didn't have even a basic understanding of what we were trying to make "you don't know that, that's not true". In similar situations in successful management lead to "ok, I trust you" and then success. If an organization spends too much of its valuable resources on internal mistrust and convincing people who don't know, it's doomed.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss of that library was sad, but didn't all the books go to the Stanford Apple archive? I also grabbed a book on parsers. I know some people from ATG found places to stay if they really, really wanted to, but unless you could directly related your work to something on Steve's agenda, you were gone. Kim stayed and worked on voice recognition, Larry Yaeger stayed and worked on InkWell, Jerome stayed and worked on…

Relating your work to something on Steve's agenda is kind of what I was describing. As another pointed out, there were some amazing technologies that came out of ATG. It is impossible to know if they would have been interesting to Jobs though at the time.

Right. If I have to be honest, I don't think I have recovered from the PTSD caused by all of those Thursday Steve UX meetings. Oh the stories that could be told...

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#233
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The guy had a vision that seems unparalleled. Yet, he asked a group of software developers to paint a data center rack mount because "it wasn't acceptable" and made people work until 3am (even though numerous studies state that this doesn't make people more productive). One can call him "visionary" all they want, but the work environment he created doesn't sound exactly utopian. Do the ends really justify the means…

I've never worked in such an environment myself but I imagine it feels something like soldiers feel following a leader who feels like he knows what he's doing. It's the feeling of shared hardship and shared experience and it creates culture of driving to follow the leader. I imagine Elon Musk (at least used to, not sure if he still does) cause the same experience in employees. That's the sense you get when you read b…

Yep, Alexander and Genghis conquered huge ands because of their leadership, not because they were nice guys.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#234

I was there in 1999 as OS X was being developed, and the beta was just about to be released. I was building another product that was released at MacWorld in 2000 (and still exists today)! I have a lot of funny stories. Steve didn't like our data center rack mounts being silver, we had to pull them all out and spray paint them black, because silver just wasn't acceptable, in a datacenter. That was my first day at work…

Now I’m actually curious what the errors where that never got noticed.

I’m sure the keynotes today will never have an error again, save a media server dying mid transcode and even then I’d expect there to be backups.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#235
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a huge part of his success. That clarity makes buying simpler for customers. You get the color that your device is supposed to be. Period.

Boy have times changed

Now there are, what, six iPads? Not sure how people decide on anything not the cheapest or most expensive. There are four “middle” options.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#236
post #122

Yes. One of the more memorable things that happened went on when I moved my office to Infinite Loop. Steve Jobs was curious about everything, so he would walk the halls, knock on doors, introduce himself "Hi. I'm Steve Jobs." And then ask about what people were working on. I was jealous as I would have loved to point out the biggest challenges we were dealing with in the hope of getting more resources. To my astonish…

So the people that were being interviewed by Jobs quit after he asked what they were doing? Or were there others hired to walk around and gather information that quit after interviewing employees? In either case, why were they quitting?

Sounds more like they were fired.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#237
post #113
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly just sounds like ... human organizations often get.

The iron law of bureaucracy: Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the fo…

Few if any people in an organization will admit that they are not devoted to the goals of the organization, and I think few senior people actually believe they are not devoted to those goals.

Further, it is difficult for many people in an organization to understand the contributions of people working in areas in which they are not expert, and thus it is easy to misunderstand whether they are devoted to the goals of the organization.

So I’m not sure this “Iron Law” can predict anything or help understand anything in a real world situation. It seems to boil to (roughly) “the bastards always win.”

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the one with the loaded question/insult from an audience member about deprecating a framework? Cause I agree that Apple has been too developer-hostile on Mac OS for a very long time, even though I'm mostly on the user side (but have also done a little Mac dev). They unnecessarily break third-party software too often, to the point where many devs have given up on proper Mac support and just thrown things into…

No, you can't really draw that line from 1997 to today's Apple. (a) Deprecation of a framework is inaccurate. It was halting development on OpenDoc -- which had been sold as the future of software development on Macs and other OS's up to that point (sort of, you had to be there). There is no modern parallel; Apple halting all development on UIKit and removing support and tools for it tomorrow would be something like…

Somewhere there is a video of me presenting at a WWDC keynote related to OpenDoc, and I was young and unprepared and spoke too fast. I’m glad that not everything is easily accessible online.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#239
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont blame Copland on Amelio, like the product was moribund before he got there, he had the sense to realize it was moribund, hire someone to verify that and then to cancel it and go find something else.

No, Copland could have shipped. It would have taken some actual management skill to get it there. Gil's contribution was to buy his way out of the problem.

And it wasn’t BeOS as people expected at the time.

Re: Ask HN: Was anyone working at Apple during Steve Jobs' return in 1997?

#240
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why Sundar is a nice guy but shit CEO.

Well he did cut Stadia, which had a sizable team working on it.

The fact that Stadia even launched was a failure.

The most basic of market research would tell you that in gaming, content is king. And with Google's track record of cancelling products, nobody would trust what they offered even if it was vastly technically superior.

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