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Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

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Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#231

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

falcolas wrote: post #174
pif wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern financial capitalism has squeezed redundancy out of everything If by "modern financial capitalism" you mean "customers who prefer cheaper to superior quality of product and/or service", then I agree with you.

How often are customers really given that choice, as opposed to companies making the decision on their behalf because customers are stupid (they just want a better horse after all). We can't buy what doesn't exist after all.

The choice is almost always there, but the overwhelming majority of people choose the cheap option. Seriously, for pretty much anything there's a cheap version and a more expensive, (usually) better quality version.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#232

Post by ryan29 »

winternett wrote: post #161

Your phone is leveraged so much because it provides companies with deeper tracking capabilities. Most laptops and PCs only geo locate based on their connection points, phones have accelerometers and more accurate location and ID info in them, so many app makers hobble browser-based app iterations to encourage mostly phone use. They also know users are engaged and focused on content more when they are on phones becaus…

As soon as you connect a phone to your home WiFi or log into a single account that device is instantly associated with you and tracks you forever. Phone numbers are just a convenient way for big tech to share your identity amongst themselves.

Use a VPN and try to create all of the accounts you'd need to participate in society. It's impossible. You'll be lucky if you can get an email address. I can't imagine being un-banked or unable to afford a phone. You can't participate in modern (western) society without a (non-VOIP) phone number.

Also, there's no air gap on a phone. Devices will be correlated via location data, SSID scanning, etc.. Put two devices in the same house with wifi disabled and location data enabled and they'll be instantly linked as knowing each other.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#233

Post by cassianoleal »

alldayeveryday wrote: post #216
Dr_ReD wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not so easy nowadays. Firstly with covid-19 many banks don't accept walk-ins and have a long waiting list for appointments. Secondly, what if the bank or other service i'm using has no physical offices at all? Or what if they're simply too far away and I'm an octogenarian, perhaps with no driving license? Eh? Am I supposed to take an uber to somewhere 100/200 miles away just because morons are given decision-m…

Your argumentation is myopic. I'm not seeing anyone making excuses. I'm seeing people face the realities that few systems (if any) are without single points of failure. Take the mobile app dependency away from banking. Then what? There's a dependency on having a computer. A dependency on having power and internet. Why did the banking system build around these single points of failure? The reality of system design dic…

> Take the mobile app dependency away from banking. Then what? There's a dependency on having a computer.

A computer, but not necessarily the one authorised computer. You can use a public one in a library, a friend's, your employer's, etc. Not the same as your own and only authorised smartphone.

> A dependency on having power and internet.

This is honestly not even an argument, and they're not a SPOF. Both the power grid and the Internet have redundancies built-in.

> is like complaining that your car requires gasoline to work.

Again, it's not. The smartphone is used as a single authorised device. Gasoline works regardless of which station you purchase it from. Out of petrol? Fill it up at the nearby station and carry on. Or preferably, don't let it run out in the first place.

> I hardly consider them morons for going with the cell phone approach.

I don't consider them morons either. That's not to say I don't recognise this as a weakness.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#234

Post by AceyMan »

falcolas wrote: post #169
guywithahat wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying we should have wasted billions manufacturing extra chips just in case there was a shortage and consumers didn't want to wait a year before buying a new car/truck?

So, a couple of companies did actually stockpile chips (Toyota was one IIRC), because it was a component whose manufacturing flexability is pretty minimal. It was financially lucrative for them, since they could sell vehicles at a time where no other manufacturers could.

> Toyota was one Iirc

The irony runs deep with that tidbit.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#236

Post by AnimalMuppet »

seydor wrote: post #235

It's a temporary phase, next generation phones will be surgically implanted under the skin so no fear of ever losing them.

No. An attacker could still, um, hack people (in a very literal way). Once you've stolen their implant, who knows what would be possible?

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#237

Post by Dr_ReD »

jerryzh wrote: post #86

Because it is indeed the thing every one carries almost all the time. Can you do these things without your passport/ID/driving license before smartphone appears?

We've been perfectly able to do all of the above, for at least a couple of decades, using any computer and even smartphones of our choosing, until they started forcing those stupid phone-apps down our throat, as if we where in a galaxy far, far away and... "This is the way!"

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#238

Post by [deleted] »

auslegung wrote: post #122
megraf wrote: post #48

I don't have the same view, in my mind you have created a single point of failure for _yourself_. I use Authy for MFA, which comes with a desktop app. Phones dead / missing? No problem, I can get OTP's from my laptop. What about text messages? Google voice. Which of course has a desktop interface. I've been doing this for years. It's nice not to have to rely on a watch, or phone entirely - although they do make my li…

Can you get OTPs on Google voice? Last I read (years ago) they said don’t do that because some won’t support it

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#239

Post by dataflow »

loyukfai wrote: post #104
dataflow wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't eSIMs have an even worse failure mode? If the phone itself dies then there's no SIM for you to take out and put into a new phone immediately right? As I understand it you have to first find another phone (with a working line!) to call your provider with, hope that it's within their business hours, and wait on hold for who knows how long, until you finally get it set up? Because of course you don't have anything…

Phone companies don't let you apply for replacement esim through a website?

Maybe some do? I've seen ones that don't.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#240

Post by satisfice »

canucklady wrote: post #62
dogleash wrote: post #52

Nobody knows how to do a failure analysis. I used to work in r&d, now that I’m building websites and mobile apps the culture doesn’t care. Pointing out obvious design limitations will, more often that not, make me the asshole. Not even trying to delay ship or get future rework scheduled, just having it documented is too much. Out of sight out of mind.

It's not that people don't know it's a SPOF. The issue is that if you fail in a way that is common, nobody blames you. Cell phone 2FA is so ubiquitous that when it doesn't work clients wonder if they're the one fucking up. We had a massive internet outage in Canada recently and nobody blamed individual shops for not being able to take credit cards, they blamed the phone company. If you roll your own thing, even if it…

Good analysis.
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