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Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

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Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#231

Post by abeppu »

gfodor wrote: post #214
abeppu wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who arbitrates which NFTs-based claims are respected versus not? How does one decide authenticity? And once you have an answer to such a question (relying on some preexisting system of ownership in the real world), then why should we care about tokens? E.g. if someone _does_ try to create an NFT for the Mona Lisa, our ability to refute / accept its authenticity is premised on the knowledge that in the real world, the…

The people who decide which NFTs matter are the communities and cultures you participate in, and entities who have sovereignty over you. Which is no different than anything else.

Right but the point the grandparent I was adding to, and also what I understand delecti is saying is roughly: Meta or a similar platform is an "entity who has sovereignty". For users to have a coherent experience in the platform, it may essentially be required that the platform exercises some decision-making power on what NFTs to respect and which not to. Do I get to bring in and use item X just because I say I own it, or not? Once the platform is exercising a choice on how/when to recognize ownership or not, the ownership system is no longer "trustless" and why should we bother with the complexity?

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#232

Post by wan23 »

mikevm wrote: post #43

Only goofy asocial types think that you can actually replace actual human interactions with virtual reality. Would you rather actually meet your friends, or have your virtual avatars meet up in some fake VR world?

I'm sure someone said something similar when they first heard of the telephone.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#233

Post by gfodor »

rackjack wrote: post #224
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laughable - that's like saying "this cake has 80% of the required ingredients, we're almost there with the exception of flour and sugar". The uncanny valley on the raw capabilities of these current products is a grand canyon. Holodeck it ain't.

I wonder how much we need facial expressions for VR communication. You can convey a lot in Source games just by crouching and violently shaking your mouse... plus nobody's trying to blow you up in a work environment (hopefully).

You can also fake it. My app jel.app has avatars that have a lot of facial animation and it’s either random or just driven off voice, and conveys a lot imo.

There is a limit and a point where this can make things worse, but if it approximates what a person expects well enough and never conflicts with that expectation it’s a good tool.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#234

Post by nh43de »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #195
ravenstine wrote: post #136

I would not take marketing around things like VR and AR very seriously because nobody knows whether any of them will catch on, and their track record isn't very good. Oculus, for the most part, is a niche. A lot of people have an Oculus but it's primarily for games, and it hasn't reached the level where everyone's gotta have one . Only time can tell whether Metaverse has something that Second Life did not. My guess i…

Oculus devices have this strange effect. The first time I got one, it was a total "wow." Then I put it on the shelf after a week and never touched it again. Talking around, I don't think I'm the only one.

Same here. When I first experienced HD VR, I knew it had the power to be extremely addictive. However, the plug and play experience isn't there. Yet. Still waiting for the killer app.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#235

Post by prova_modena »

mabbo wrote: post #137
_Understated_ wrote: post #131

I've often wondered if Mark Zuckerberg has anyone in his inner corporate circle that is willing to say "no" to him. Meta seems like there was a wall of post-it notes in Zuck's office with a bunch of ideas to stop FB from becoming MySpace and the dart he threw landed on this one. My gut tells me that Meta is dead in the water but with the billions that FB have in their war chest I wouldn't bet against it completely, h…

Huh, that's a neat idea. What if Zuck is this generation's George Lucas? For context, after the success of Star Wars and Indiana Jones, it's said that Lucas surrounded himself with yes-men who agreed with whatever he said. Anyone who wasn't one of those didn't last long in his inner circle. The end result was "Star Wars: Episode 1 - The Phantom Menace". There's an hour-long review video by "Mr Plinkett"[0] that dives…

There is also an official documentary about the making of episode 1 that is viewable on YouTube.[0] Even though this was produced as promotional material for the film's DVD release, Lucas' total control and hubristic self regard are barely concealed subtexts. There is a great scene where Spielberg is visiting Lucas on set and they are just repeating to each other "It'll be great!" or some such platitude with forced enthusiasm. Even Lucas seemed to know he was out of his depth.

[0] https://youtu.be/da8s9m4zEpo

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#236

Post by gfodor »

abeppu wrote: post #231
gfodor wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who decide which NFTs matter are the communities and cultures you participate in, and entities who have sovereignty over you. Which is no different than anything else.

Right but the point the grandparent I was adding to, and also what I understand delecti is saying is roughly: Meta or a similar platform is an "entity who has sovereignty". For users to have a coherent experience in the platform, it may essentially be required that the platform exercises some decision-making power on what NFTs to respect and which not to. Do I get to bring in and use item X just because I say I own i…

I would agree a centralized authority like Facebook basically “owning” what gets blessed is a world where the promise of these technologies has not been met. The hope is that we can have a more egalitarian outcome where there are a variety of actors who align based on shared interests to agree on what contracts to recognize and confer benefits based on. Of course, one challenge with realizing this can be seen elsewhere in this thread, where people are dismissive of the entire concept (and ironically have boxed it in as a Facebook thing now, effectively ceding the entire territory before the first battle.) It’s important that technologists get sped up on what is at stake and the likelihood that correcting a misstep will be hard or impossible for future generations if a singular entity “wins” this emerging space in the next several years. There really won’t be another platform turnover to try to correct the error and disrupt the existing players as there has been for the last several computing platform changes.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#237

Post by mojuba »

tjpnz wrote: post #152
ravenstine wrote: post #136

I would not take marketing around things like VR and AR very seriously because nobody knows whether any of them will catch on, and their track record isn't very good. Oculus, for the most part, is a niche. A lot of people have an Oculus but it's primarily for games, and it hasn't reached the level where everyone's gotta have one . Only time can tell whether Metaverse has something that Second Life did not. My guess i…

>Overall, I think Silicon Valley is overestimating people's willingness to wear headsets and paddles for extended periods of time. I think the issue is that a significant portion of the population will have issues consuming the content and not ending up with eye strain or getting sick. It was one of the factors which killed off the resurgence of 3D in the 2010s and VR headsets suffer from many of the same problems. B…

The two main problems with VR not feeling quite right is the virtual world not reacting to focus and aperture changes in our eyes. The brain gets confused, and that creates this sense of confusion and that something is wrong.

These can be solved some day though by following the eye's aperture and focus and adjusting the "world" with minimal latency.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#238

Post by gfodor »

ghaff wrote: post #220
gfodor wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the headsets are a distraction, the way to think about this is there are three distinct tech tracks: - full photonic override (HMDs -> passthrough visors (lynx-r is a half step) -> passthrough swim goggles -> contact lenses) - partial photonic override (HoloLens -> AR glasses -> contact lenses) - magic windows (google’s thing) They all have trade offs but the first track in particular it is an error to look at c…

Certainly. Though I'd be inclined to argue that full VR/immersion is mostly of interest in an exploration context (e.g. 3D construction walk through, virtual tourism) or simulation (including gaming)--especially for situations where you can participate from a fixed location.

I think if another tech hits face to face social presence scores then yes things get a lot more interesting. I don’t know if google has run a study.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#239

Post by MauranKilom »

WhiteNoiz3 wrote: post #221
jostmey wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palm pilots didn’t become pervasive. So you could have applied that argument to iPhones. It is a matter of if the technology is ready. When it is, it will take off

I agree. VR is allows for great game experiences, but today's devices are still cumbersome and we won't see a VR device get mass adoption until we have something that is: - Not much bigger or heavier than a pair of glasses - Lets me work all day on virtual screens to replace my monitor. It would be great if it also connected to my phone to give me more screen real estate there, showed my notifications etc. - has pass…

> or just being able to do things quickly and privately without pointing a phone at something.

From what I've read, you'll more or less have the opposite effect. People assumed Google Glass wearers always had the camera on, or were taking pictures, even if they were unambiguously not. Wearing any gadget with this capability will not be significantly different from pointing a phone at something, I believe.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#240

Post by AlwaysRock »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #166
gfodor wrote: post #146

It’s simple really, and most commenters don’t “get” what is going on with all this. Remote communication tools like video conferencing fail to deliver what academics call “social presence”, which is the feeling of being together in unmediated communication. VR and AR have the necessary capabilities to do so, and deliver social presence on par with face to face. With a fully immersive experience, you can feel like you…

Until we can see each other's faces in VR, this won't work for social presence. Shrinking everything down to contact lenses (even sunglasses get in the way of social contact) is likely to be beyond us for quite some while if ever. I'd rather not put something in my eye anyway. Further, VR does not work well for switching - you can't be in VR and scribble notes at the same time. AR might be an improvement, but not by…

All of these points could start with the word, "Currently, ". Don't you think having one of the world largest companies throwing massive amounts of time and money into these issues could solve a few of these?
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