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Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

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Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#231
I was doing an internship in 2001 during my master and at the time many people wondered if one shouldn't quit univeristy to start a high paying job (people would hire you no matter what).

Fast forward 1 year later, i started a PhD in a research lab working on sound hardware / software in the SV. The day i arrived i noticed something weird : the first floor of the pretty big building was completely empty. There were still computers and mugs on some desks, but other than that it looked like a weird epidemic killed everyone.

I learned later that half of the employees of the research center (including the local boss) had been fired two weeks before i arrived, and everybody had been moved to the second floor. I couldn't complete my PhD because they wouldn't finance new research anymore, so i went back to France and look for a job. After a few months trying to look for work in the audio field in vain, i finally ended up finding a job at a consulting firm, doing mundane backoffice development (database, web-based interface, in corporate environment).

So, basically it went from "we'll hire just anybody, even unqualified", to "PhD looking for a job" in just a year.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#232
For me, the most crazy change was several stories in the early 2000s of running into (literally) used car salespeople who mentioned they were software devs for a while in 1999. They were hustling cars in 1997, hustling code in ‘98 and ‘99, and back to cars in 2001.

I spent the crash in the financial industry which was hit in its own way: one fire-sold company office, one closed satellite office with a job transfer to a consulting company maintaining the same codebase for the company who closed the sat office. That last was my worst job ever but paid rent. The day the final retention bonus/bribe to take the consulting gig hit my bank, 6 of us resigned to come over to our next early-mid-stage startup. My ex-colleagues from the original office seemed to have slower job searches but all found interesting and fruitful work. (The office was a D. E. Shaw & Co. office: fully staffed with higher than average caliber devs. All found work reasonably quickly.)

In the 2008 GFC, that was much less a tech bubble and more a general financial issue. Our company just grew more slowly as the world worked itself out of that crisis, so I have no meaningful insight about that one.

To the extent that this “bubble” feels much less severe than 1999, I suspect more than 3/4 of qualified devs will do just fine in any tech bubble burst. Terrible devs barely hanging onto their job now could easily be shaken out into another field. That might even be better for them overall.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#234
What I can tell you with some confidence is that something like the dot com bust can never happen again in our industry.

The strange thing was how suddenly it happened. It felt like the majority of projects got defunded in a matter of weeks or months. Our funding disappeared as the VC firm collapsed together with its parent company. Our customers (telcos) stopped approving any new projects that weren't guaranteed to be profitable within the quarter as they were hit by a ruinous bidding war for frequency sprectrum at the same time.

The reason why I'm saying it can never happen again (in this particular industry) is that tech/internet was a tiny and isolated part of the economy back then (called "The New Economy"). Today's tech industry is huge and very diverse. It's part of everything now. The largest corporations on earth are now tech firms. Back then, there was nowhere to go for many employees in that sector (at least for a while).

I was fortunate enough to have saved a bit of money, partly because I had refused to take stock options in place of proper payment. So I was able to self-fund some projects that I was interested in with a goal of creating an organically growing company. I've been avoiding the whole high growth VC culture ever since, which may have been a mistake in purely financial terms.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly this is also the attitude of many money managers (Warren Buffett, to take the best known example). You'd think at least they would take explicit, timed preventive action. Many (most?) of them don't.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say about Buffett, but he's sitting on a gigantic pile of cash right now. He knows which way the wind is blowing.

Which is exactly what I'm doing as a freelancer as well.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#237
A lot of regular developers were working on Y2K modifications to enterprise programs. That was a person intensive effort and was very successful. In a lot of cases it wasn't very easy. I get the feeling that 32-bit gates in embedded control devices will not be taken as seriously.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#238

Offered in the spirit of "don't believe everything you hear": I went into university and graduated during the post-bust winter. The few adults I knew, plus the Wall Street Journal, were unanimous in their opinion that engineering as a field was done in the United States and that all future hiring of software developers would happen in Asia. I got on a plane to Japan immediately after graduation. It's been a fun and f…

People are still telling me this just last year. Met a couple of software developers that I believe worked at one of the more traditional large corps. Over the next half an hour or so they kept telling me about how software is a dead end career and all the jobs are going to go off shore soon. They seemed super depressed about their future prospects. No amount of me talking about career (and compensation) prospects of software developers would sway them. And this was in the Bay Area.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#239
In late 1990s I was still in high school but the.com bubble still reached us there at a young age. I was put into a tech training course called CIT 1 & CIT 2 it was 4 years of tech and college courses. Everyday for 4 years I had a computer integrated technology class that taught everything from how to deal with users all the way to networking & computer programming. We worked on as400, the school network and teachers computers at 14 years old we were experimenting with OSPF. This "pioneer program" was scrutinized and hailed as a victory by news broadcasters & newspapers we were interviewed by all kinds of people throughout the program looking to do the same in their schools. This was the fast track once we got out of high school we were college trained and ready to go into the workforce. The burst happened right after I got out I actually went from interviewing at Fortune 500 companies to taking a cable pulling job that was local for minimum wage. I ended up with a construction company that builds smart homes and I've been happy there ever since.

Re: Ask HN: How was life for a regular dev during the dot com burst?

#240
post #181
post #156

I had a summer internship at HP while I was in college. (I graduated in 1992.) When I graduated, the assumption/expectation was that they would offer me a job. They hesitated, and a manager who was unusually nice to me explained that HP hires people who will stick around for many years -- and thus, they weighed every hire carefully. He went further and said that several years before that, when there had been a recess…

>the boss/owner should be paid last Yup. My dad is big on that too. Always thought he overplayed it, but one day he explained that the people he employs are quite poor. So if they don't get paid they can't put food on the table - literally. While he has a bit more of a buffer.

When I was a contractor in fintech, I did a lot of work for one guy on and off over 10 years. He was always very prompt in paying, and I only found out after some time that some of his clients (big banks) were very slow to pay him. At one point he paid everyone contracting for him out of his own pocket for nearly a year. None of us were exactly poor, but it contrasted with other clients who were happy to pass payment delays straight on to me!
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