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Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

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Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#231

Post by Bombthecat »

mlent wrote: post #230
Bombthecat wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, yeah, I´m trying to understand that.. Since I need to do it for my wife... It looks super complex :(

I use TurboTax and it's built into the software finally, and makes this quite simple. Originally they just made you look at the tax form and fill it out yourself, but they've really improved the "foreign american" parts of the tax software in the past two years.

Nice! Which version should I use?

Oh boy,just realised that we need to report the last three years too. Called streamlined process... Can they do that?

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#232

Post by bendermon »

I am neither European nor American and have been living in Copenhagen for about 3.5 years. Here are some observations.

The one big difference is that at the end of the month you would have nothing left to save. And if you plan to move out at a later point you would have neither money nor a useful professional network.

You would not be eligible for most of the good things we hear about socialist states - social housing, paid education.

If you are young and healthy you may not have much to get out of the free healthcare.

Be ready to pay incredibly high rents for private company housing or be homeless constantly, I have moved 9 times in 3.5 years and now I pay more than half my pay in rent+transport to live in a city 100 KMs away (unlimited by expensive).

Language and Credentials: Can be a short term and long term barrier, be ready to start from square one at least on your first job.

Pay: Usually unionised, software engineers earn about average salaries just like everyone else, even though they have diminishing career prospects. I was shocked to learn that CS was the least attractive majors, now I understand why.

Scale and opportunity: There is no critical mass at least in small countries like Denmark so I believe the best opportunities are still the ones in the US, especially if you want to specialise.

I am sure you have heard plenty of the positives of life in Europe and assume it must be the reason for your question.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#233

Post by verbify »

brianwawok wrote: post #222
verbify wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ratio of savings:spending lets me know when I can retire early. Using exaggerated figures, if I earn 100k in the US, save 10k a year but I spend 90k, then it's going to take me longer to retire than if I earn 35k in Europe, spend 30k and save 5k. Because in the US, it'll take 9 years to save enough to live off one year, while in Europe it'll take six years to do the same. Of course you can move to a cheaper count…

But the win in that game is to save 10k per year in the US, then retire in Europe. Get full retirement in half the time. Many do that within the US with cost of living games. Work in SF for 5 years saving 200k a year. Move to Flordia and be set living in 40k a year for life. (Or some variation thereof)

That works for some. But there is a loss of social capital and cultural capital in moving. Over a few years it's possible to build a new friendship circle (although I'm told that gets harder as one gets older). Additionally, while a basket of goods might be cheaper in Florida, as Rumsfeld said, there are unknown unknowns.

Perhaps Florida is more expensive than you might think because the cost of air-conditioning is expensive. And while lots can go without it, as a non-native, you might find the heat unbearable. I'm using this as an example of why it's difficult to estimate the true costs of living somewhere until you've put down roots there.

Furthermore, when you're on 100k a year and saving $10k, spending $400 on a new phone is a negligible expense. If you're on $30k, and saving $6k it is a bigger proportion of your savings. If you plan on moving, you're going to readjust your standard of living and your creature comforts.

Obviously your strategy can and does work, but counting on a move working out and being able to reduce living costs is a riskier strategy (with a potentially bigger payout), and it comes with its own costs.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#234

Post by tluyben2 »

loxs wrote: post #63
tluyben2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What countries? My experiences are excellent in Netherlands & Spain public healthcare. I hear people complain about NHS a lot but never used it so no idea.

Bulgaria, Spain, Denmark, Finland

Do you speak Spanish well? It makes a massive difference... Maybe that goes for the other countries too?

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#235

Post by tluyben2 »

scrollaway wrote: post #90
tluyben2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What countries? My experiences are excellent in Netherlands & Spain public healthcare. I hear people complain about NHS a lot but never used it so no idea.

The NHS is very highly regarded in the UK as one of their greatest accomplishment. Brits are proud of their healthcare :)

Well :) I work a lot in the UK and live close to many Brits and they (middle to high class people) whine a lot about the NHS. It being slow and crappy. Like said; no idea if that is true or not.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#236

Post by scrollaway »

tluyben2 wrote: post #235
scrollaway wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NHS is very highly regarded in the UK as one of their greatest accomplishment. Brits are proud of their healthcare :)

Well :) I work a lot in the UK and live close to many Brits and they (middle to high class people) whine a lot about the NHS. It being slow and crappy. Like said; no idea if that is true or not.

I'm legitimately surprised to hear that. I haven't had any particularly remarkable experiences with the NHS myself, but I've never heard a british person complain about it - only ever heard praise.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#237

Post by mlent »

Bombthecat wrote: post #231
mlent wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use TurboTax and it's built into the software finally, and makes this quite simple. Originally they just made you look at the tax form and fill it out yourself, but they've really improved the "foreign american" parts of the tax software in the past two years.

Nice! Which version should I use? Oh boy,just realised that we need to report the last three years too. Called streamlined process... Can they do that?

You would need to buy past versions of the software I think. I don't know how that works -- I just use my parent's copy every year. You get like 3 licenses whenever you buy the software, so if you know someone else who needs to file maybe you can share ;)

But I think you'll have to print them out and mail them in manually, rather than electronic filing. But I haven't tried myself so I'm not sure.

(Edit: To be clear, the tax software is versioned by tax year. So, "Turbotax 2016" is what I will use this year. So you'd have to buy Turbotax 2015, 2014, and 2013 presumably.)

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#238

Post by PaulHoule »

askmike wrote: post #16
PaulHoule wrote: post #6

I think Europe is going just as nutty as the states, maybe more. I am betting that the national front wins in France and France drops out; after that the euro collapses and we see a monetary nightmare.

I would like to take you on that bet. I also wonder if you have ever been to anywhere in Europe.

I lived in Germany for a year and have spent time in the UK, Netherlands, Austria, Czech Republic, etc.

Yes, Europe has architecture where the U.S. has decorated sheds. But the social fault lines in Europe aren't that different from the social fault lines in the states.

From day one the pundits have been concerned that effects related to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_trinity

would blow up the euro -- i.e. Germany and Italy might have reasons to have different monetary policies. Many economists think the situation is truely intractable (they'd like it if the "Impossible Trinity" was a solid concept) but it certainly is intractable if you don't face the social fault lines head on.

Re: Ask HN: Thinking of moving to Europe from USA

#239

Post by [deleted] »

verbify wrote: post #233
brianwawok wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the win in that game is to save 10k per year in the US, then retire in Europe. Get full retirement in half the time. Many do that within the US with cost of living games. Work in SF for 5 years saving 200k a year. Move to Flordia and be set living in 40k a year for life. (Or some variation thereof)

That works for some. But there is a loss of social capital and cultural capital in moving. Over a few years it's possible to build a new friendship circle (although I'm told that gets harder as one gets older). Additionally, while a basket of goods might be cheaper in Florida, as Rumsfeld said, there are unknown unknowns. Perhaps Florida is more expensive than you might think because the cost of air-conditioning is e…

[deleted]
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