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Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

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Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#221

Post by mercenario »

randerson wrote: post #62

Poorly. I did all the work while my friend goofed off and ran personal errands all day. The friend eventually made a fortune selling their equity and retired young. I did not get awarded the same privilege. We no longer speak and I still get angry when I think about that. On the other hand, I have made good friends through the workplace who I would start a startup with in a heartbeat.

> Poorly. I did all the work while my friend goofed off and ran personal errands all day

You should create your own startup without your friend then.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#222

Post by blantonl »

mreezie wrote: post #196

Lots of people like to talk about the downside risk of losing friends when things go south. What most people don't realize is that when the business does well, you risk your friends becoming just business partners. You lose that impartial party in your life you can talk to about anything and realize you and your friends now only talk about business.

Don’t forget about the dynamics of when things go wildly successful. Greed can easily take over in friendships and all the sudden someone might talk themselves into believing their friends don’t “deserve” to participate in that success at the same level as themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#223

Post by Solvency »

GandalfTheWhite wrote: post #217
FreakLegion wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Separate from whether the process was any good, your friend wasn't necessarily wrong not to make you an exception to it. Nepotism can be pretty rough on a team's morale.

If I was another employee or applicant, I would be legitimately upset if someone didn't have to jump through the same hoops that I did simply because he knew the boss.

That's insane. My CEO is 60 years old and has built and sold 4 different companies before this. His network of former colleagues is deep. It would be childish for me to believe all of the potential people from his former working relationships should be beholden to the exact same homework assignments as someone who is a complete stranger.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#224

Post by mercenario »

xrd wrote: post #31

It definitely ruined a friendship of mine. His startup was making insane amounts of money. He offered me a position, then his business priorities changed and forced me into a poor role with no long term prospects. I struggled in that new role and he noticed that. He then terminated our agreement two months early. There are reasons he's right about what he did and there are reasons I'm right about being upset about it…

On one side you were a employee, so he needs to treat you kinda like a regular employee. If what he did to you would be normal for another employee, then he has a point. Doing different could even be seem as unfair for the other employees.

On the other side you are a friend, I really don't know what he could have done differently, very hard.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#225

Post by stavros »

brigadier132 wrote: post #214
stavros wrote: post #213

I joined a friend's startup, it was five academics and me (I have an industry background). There were a few disagreements about the approach, I found the academics didn't have much experience about how to market a product, it led to creating a few products with insufficient feedback, and they failed when released (we couldn't find anyone to buy them, the prospective customers we had talked to and had said "yeah sure…

Were all the people that were hired cofounders? Also, why would you need a hired CEO, wouldn't your friend fill that role? The arrangement you all had seems strange.

Three cofounders, three advisors. I think my friend's thinking was that we'd have someone from technology (me), a scientist (him) and a business person (the CEO), but unfortunately it turned out that picking someone at random to be the CEO of your company isn't the best strategy.

I advised that my friend become CEO instead and that the then-CEO become more of an operations person (COO? Titles in a three-person startup are weird), which was a role the CEO wanted more anyway, but I think the advisors didn't want to go for that.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#226

Post by stavros »

blantonl wrote: post #219
stavros wrote: post #213

I joined a friend's startup, it was five academics and me (I have an industry background). There were a few disagreements about the approach, I found the academics didn't have much experience about how to market a product, it led to creating a few products with insufficient feedback, and they failed when released (we couldn't find anyone to buy them, the prospective customers we had talked to and had said "yeah sure…

Voodoo also just feels better then paying invoices to lawyers.

Tell me about it, those invoices were wasted money, and I'm fairly bitter about the "oh this is a slam dunk, it'll be $2k" "oh we need $2k more for X" "and another for Y" "oh well you're looking at $100k".

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#227

Post by stavros »

stavros wrote: post #213

I joined a friend's startup, it was five academics and me (I have an industry background). There were a few disagreements about the approach, I found the academics didn't have much experience about how to market a product, it led to creating a few products with insufficient feedback, and they failed when released (we couldn't find anyone to buy them, the prospective customers we had talked to and had said "yeah sure…

Just so I don't just mention the negative, I tried to start a company with another friend two more times, it didn't go well each time because of various understandable reasons on both sides. I've now joined another startup this friend has founded, which is doing very well (we're at 200 people now) and it's one of the best jobs I've had.

It's definitely not all negative, but it's like any relationship. If you don't check for compatibility from the start, and ensure that all parties are mature and willing to put in the work to make it successful, you're probably going to be disappointed.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#228

Post by devilsAdv0cate »

stavros wrote: post #213

I joined a friend's startup, it was five academics and me (I have an industry background). There were a few disagreements about the approach, I found the academics didn't have much experience about how to market a product, it led to creating a few products with insufficient feedback, and they failed when released (we couldn't find anyone to buy them, the prospective customers we had talked to and had said "yeah sure…

[dead]

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#229

Post by devilsAdv0cate »

illys wrote: post #172
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #163

One of my favorite quotes is attributed to Saint Augustine: "If two friends ask you to judge a dispute, don't accept, because you will lose one friend; on the other hand, if two strangers come with the same request, accept, because you will gain one friend." It sort of applies, here, as well.

If two friends ask you to judge a dispute, and you don't accept... You might loose two friends since both of them think they are right and will not understand you do not support them.

[dead]

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#230

Post by brandall10 »

geraldhh wrote: post #116
xrd wrote: post #31

It definitely ruined a friendship of mine. His startup was making insane amounts of money. He offered me a position, then his business priorities changed and forced me into a poor role with no long term prospects. I struggled in that new role and he noticed that. He then terminated our agreement two months early. There are reasons he's right about what he did and there are reasons I'm right about being upset about it…

> As it was it left me scrambling with three small kids. you did not mention whether this early termination was communicated beforehand. nevertheless this person probably never was your friend. sry

I've seen friendships break down over one person not doing the dishes for a prolonged period.

The issue with friendships is usually there's some expectation of being in it 'together' and to put in some sort of similar effort, despite the major power imbalance of employee vs. cofounder.

If the founder feels their friend is for instance, giving say half the effort they are (which I feel personally is reasonable for an early stage employee, that they have a life), they may feel their friend is violating some notion of trust, despite the friend getting maybe 1% equity at best.

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