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Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#221

Post by poulpy123 »

jongjong wrote: post #164
iancmceachern wrote: post #83

I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. I figure what your looking for, advice wise, is what's not obvious. A few things you'll need: -Product liability insurance, this isn't isn't easy or inexpensive to get. You need to have a lot of the below in place to get it. - UL certification (or…

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it sh…

I think this is the most insane thing I have read in a year, and I spend too much time on twitter

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#222

Post by M_bara »

throwup238 wrote: post #198
floren wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When too many OOOOLOOO brand toasters start fires, they just close their Amazon profile and create a new one selling FOLGARP brand toasters. You can't have quite that level of untouchability as a US manufacturer, so you have to do it right.

FOLGARP is the best. Three out of four of the couples I gifted those toasters are now deceased and will never demand a gift from me ever again. The fire investigators just call it an “act of god.” Unfortunately the fourth only burned their house down and now we have to tolerate an insufferable GoFundMe campaign because their CA fire insurance only covers gender reveal parties. Bezos ruins everything.

Yeah, these fr*cking toasters are out to get humans. Ask colonel Saul

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#223

Post by throwaway2037 »

randmeerkat wrote: post #125
nl wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree. The high end of the market is a proven niche and the target high-end buyer has demonstrated a willingness to spend freely on premium grade products. Are you saying there is a proven market for luxury toasters? While in general this is true I think "premium" grade home appliances generally top out around twice the cost of mid-range (I'm thinking vacuums, ovens, refrigerators etc where you compare similar…

> Are you saying there is a proven market for luxury toasters? There’s a proven luxury market for literally anything. Just look at the $399 Wolf Toaster, which coincidentally is made in the U.S. This is the same brand that makes the famous Wolf Ranges. https://wolfgourmet.com/store/countertop-appliances/four-sli...

Suggested Retail Price: $599!

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#224

Post by danielbln »

jongjong wrote: post #205
zztop44 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love that regulations kill people through both excessive mental distress and false peace of mind. That’s wonderful.

Regulations are anti-competitive as they prevent people from successfully bootstrapping their startups and becoming entrepreneurs. It forces ambitious people without capital to be wage slaves which causes substantial mental distress. False peace of mind harms people because it makes people assume that all products on the shelves are safe by default which isn't always the case and drives harmful behaviors on a massive…

Someone drank the libertarian cool aid. I'll take my toasters certified and regulated, they might not be 100% safe, but they sure as hell will be safer than what most garage entrepreneurs will cobble together. Details matter, standards matter, and regulation is a way to enforce those.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#225

Post by bigfudge »

wegfawefgawefg wrote: post #192
tcmart14 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not there to help incumbents. New companies come up all the time to make these kinds of products. Its a barrier to entry to keep Joe dipshit who learned how to solder together two wires last night thinking he can has an overnight get rich quick scheme shoddily throwing some random components together without knowing or acknowledging what they are really doing and selling that product to some unsuspecting person t…

I believe you, but arent you suspicious of the Big Toasta superconglomerate.

Although I don’t want random delay incendiary devices either, I do have some sympathy with OP. The net effect of all regulations like this means large classes of business are not feasible unless you have substantial capital. And availability of capital for good ideas is not at all evenly distributed in our society (the UK at least). This is just one more way that we are going to entrench low social mobility. Note also, it’s not just electronics regs that act in this way - our societies have become much more regulated and rule bound in my life time. Often things for good reason, but we should think about the ways in which this entrenches incumbents imo.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#226

Post by bigfudge »

atoav wrote: post #178
jongjong wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it sh…

That means you the kind of person that buys an experimental toaster and leaves it plugged through the night in your families kitchen? There might be regulation that is too much, also in the field of electrical engineering (and I am a certified EE), but most of it (especially regarding toasters) is pretty useful if you want to sleep sound. This is not about making a toaster. I could make one using a long piece of wire…

But the issue isn’t that they couldn’t clear that bar, necessarily. It’s that they may not have the capital to prove it. We have created an uneven playing field against OLLLOO devices, and against large home grown corps which can indirectly inflate the prices for certification because the incumbency means the cost is not an issue for them.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#227

Post by netcan »

So...

It sounds that you're up for a meander. Do it. I suspect that both the public interest in domestically manufactured toasters and your interest are related.

There's something basic about a toaster. The basic consumer electronic appliances.

Also... just an idea... How about a Non-electric toaster? Lighter gas. Ethanol. Just an idea.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#228

Post by bigfudge »

quacked wrote: post #16

I've had a similar idea, except in addition to toasters, it's midsize pickup trucks, washing machines, dryers, dishwashers... What I've found is that regulations make it impossible to sell simple machines, labor costs make it impossible to compete on price, lawyers make it impossible to go to market without being sued, and consumers who say they want reliable, well-made goods will balk and buy cheap stuff en masse wh…

Any gals?

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#229

Post by janalsncm »

jongjong wrote: post #164
iancmceachern wrote: post #83

I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. I figure what your looking for, advice wise, is what's not obvious. A few things you'll need: -Product liability insurance, this isn't isn't easy or inexpensive to get. You need to have a lot of the below in place to get it. - UL certification (or…

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it sh…

> I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research

Apart from all of the other obvious things people have mentioned, what this hyperlibertarian perspective fails to take into account is externalities. I might have done my own toaster research, but did my neighbor? What happens when my neighbor doesn’t do his own toaster research properly and ends up burning down both of our apartments? Insurance can’t cover everything that will be destroyed.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#230

Post by herbst »

sumoboy wrote: post #104
Dig1t wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>washing machines Among your examples I think this one is interesting. Speed Queen is regarded as among the best washing machines + dryers and they are made in the US. They are extremely well built, they feel really sturdy to use and also are known for being extremely reliable. I guess what I'm imagining is the Speed Queen of toasters..

Just don't use any plastic parts, over-engineer the whole thing internally, no wifi, just a dial for temp and lever to engage. All these fancy toasters still can't toast bread.

If you do WiFi, do it right. Nobody wants to install a toaster app but many Devs would enjoy a little API for their toasters
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