Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Getting tired of complexity in web development

news.ycombinator.com

221–230 of 292 posts

Re: Ask HN: Getting tired of complexity in web development

#221
That's why I stick with Ruby/Rails (while having 20 years of experience with variety of other languages/frameworks like C, C#, Go, JavaScript/React):

* "Optimized for Programmer Happiness"

* The Principle of Least Surprise

The knowledge you gained 10 years ago is still applicable, language/framework is not going anywhere soon. I kinda love what I do.

Shameless plug - my Ruby book https://leanpub.com/rubyisforfun/

Re: Ask HN: Getting tired of complexity in web development

#222
post #195

I call this the "path to enlightenment." You have discovered that the most popular toolchain is overkill for 95% of the things its used for. The problem is that's true literally across the board. You move to the backend and you have to deal with people who fell in love with microservices and weird databases that they didn't need. You move to ops and you have to deal with k8s when a single container would do. If you t…

> Why does this happen I wrote up my hypothesis here: https://hasen.substack.com/i/52275953/why-the-situation-pers... Basically, programmers love complexity. If they can't solve real problems, they will create fake problems so they can solve them. They might not realize that's what they're doing. Programmers love solving puzzles. It's why they program. The problem arises when they can't solve the real puzzle due to l…

I should also add that people who advocate for simplicity primarily do so because they want to solve bigger / more complicated problems, but the complexity level gets in their way.

People who don't see the existing solutions as overly complex are content to stay at their current level and have no vision of solving bigger more difficult problems. They think they are already working at or near the peak of human possibility.

Re: Ask HN: Getting tired of complexity in web development

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still work on a Django monolith and agree on being able to focus 100% on business logic. I've found Angular is excellent for "sprinkling" a little JS into the frontend where necessary rather than going the full SPA/React route.

I worked on multiple Django monolith projects in the past years where parts of it with heavy client-side logic were offloaded to tiny Vue.js applications injected into the html template. If data requires reloads or manipulations a side restful api needs to be created along the main endpoint which renders html. But it's fairly straightforward with DRF and the enforced by default apps/models structure of Django. Until…

Have you tried htmlx? It fits this gap quite nicely, it's lets you do AJAX with SSR.

Re: Ask HN: Getting tired of complexity in web development

#225
post #121

I feel your pain. My career happiness peaked around 2014 or 2015, when I was writing Rails monoliths. I felt like I could focus 100% of my energy on business logic since the framework was so opinionated and the stack was simple. Things went rapidly downhill after that, once microservices, SPAs, node.js, NoSQL, and serverless computing started becoming popular. Everything just felt like a step backward. Microservices…

Spot on. Rails just let you get shit done. All we needed was a Rails for Node.js.

There is a Laravel for Node.js - https://adonisjs.com/

Re: Ask HN: Getting tired of complexity in web development

#227
post #4

Using React with an API back-end is only 1 of many choices. There's tools like Hotwire[0] and htmx[1] (both are back-end agnostic) that will let you create good old boring web apps with any back-end language where you don't need to write a ton of JS. You can sprinkle in front-end quality of life enhancements as needed to make nice feeling web apps with reasonably minimal complexity. [0]: https://hotwired.dev/ [1]: ht…

Don't forget Unpoly: https://demo.unpoly.com/

And Alpine https://alpinejs.dev/ and petite-vue https://github.com/vuejs/petite-vue

Re: Ask HN: Getting tired of complexity in web development

#228
post #126

no such thing as frontend development. only full stack. and react for all the trillions of words written about it, what can you actually do with it? not much. also it's over-saturated as hell. you think there's high demand, you're right, now try applying for a position and see how it goes. there are two types of roles in modern web dev: 1 .90% of jobs are code monkey work: extremely saturated, you are competing with…

It’s crazy and impressive how we devs created this fucking huge industry where hundreds of millions was spent to solve a problem that didn’t really exist and actually made things harder and more expensive.

every solution creates new issues. sometimes the trade-offs are worth it, but many many are not - but there is a lack of stability and appreciation for long term support, so trade-offs are being made left right and center. you work on constantly shifting surfaces.

Re: Ask HN: Getting tired of complexity in web development

#229

no such thing as frontend development. only full stack. and react for all the trillions of words written about it, what can you actually do with it? not much. also it's over-saturated as hell. you think there's high demand, you're right, now try applying for a position and see how it goes. there are two types of roles in modern web dev: 1 .90% of jobs are code monkey work: extremely saturated, you are competing with…

Come on now. With modern flow, you have to "install git", but in ye olde times you don't install svn or ftp? And back then we didn't have gatekeeping seniors? And we request sudo now, and not back then? I think you got that confused. Old software sucked a lot, and automation sucked a lot. Weird issues where you HAD to know what went wrong, because handholding was looked down upon. The lack of automation meant that se…

> Also, what can you do on the frontend only?

I was talking specifically about React. But it's not a surprise that "modern front end" devs conflate React with JavaScript.

Re: Ask HN: Getting tired of complexity in web development

#230
post #114

I was thinking the same thing recently. I’ve finally realized that React is painful and overly complex. I just followed the crowd and got too deep. Backbone was elegant and simple. I could step through all the code being executed with my debugger. React is impossible to step through and the error messages are still terrible. It’s like an entirely new programming language and runtime. This “it’s just javascript” bulls…

I have same opinion on react and after trying sveltekit I was really surprised how simple front end could look like. Now I can't even use anything except svelte and it's kinda sad but man it feels right for frontend.
Post reply on HN