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Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

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Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#221

"Take-home technical assignment (~4h)" I've got 20 plus years of tech, I've been out of college since 1997 and you want to give a 4 hour homework assignment. If get you want to get a feel for someone's ability but this is more easily done by stating a problem during one of the interviews and asking the person "How would you approach this?" Listing for how they anticipate problems and tradeoffs.

Same I skip these. Same with interview processes that front-load things with an "Online Assessment".

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing with 4hr technical assignments is that you're saying no to anyone with kids, which I'm going to venture applies to more senior people than juniors. I used to do these assignment. Now I simply don't sorry. My schedule is 6:30 AM wake up with youngest daughter, to let wife sleep in (she takes care of her all night) 9:00 AM hand off youngest daughter to wife, who takes both girls the rest of the day. I go to m…

I don't know what exactly OP is assigning to applicants, but in my experience a "four hour" coding assignment can be completed in an hour or two - and they don't have to be consecutive hours, it just means four hours is your limit and you have a few days or a week to complete it in.

In my experience a (not timeboxed) 4 hours coding assignment will actually take at least a day.

Is not necessary malicious from those companies, they just underestimate the time their test take.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#223
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two companies have offered me Amazon gift cards, one of them told me that it’s far easier for tax purposes (my understanding is that this is why user research often offers them, rather than cash). I assume they could give prepaid debit cards too, for people who prefer not to shop at Amazon.

I don't know what the law is. Years ago, but I've been paid for doing a focus group in cash. So there's presumably some threshold where you can just have essentially a petty cash business expense. Obviously meals and so forth as well. (And, assuming the law hasn't changed, US government employees have to pay for even a modest meal at a company's executive briefing center.) OTOH, I've had 1099s for even very modest si…

> So there's presumably some threshold where you can just have essentially a petty cash business expense.

$600

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#224
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, take home technical assignment. Why would I ever? I'd much rather have a comfortable conversation with someone who has worked with me in the past. I'm never, ever doing a 4 hour assignment for you.

People say this and I have yet to find a company that doesn't do some kind of technical assessment. But I have seen multiple coworkers with 10-20 years of experience as software engineers with glowing recommendations get fired because they couldn't write software. So I'm a little happier to have some bar for myself and coworkers to clear. > I'm never, ever doing a 4 hour assignment for you. Boo hoo, you need to spend…

> Boo hoo, you need to spend four hours of your life to take home multiples of the median American family's income. It blows my mind how conceited some people in this industry can be, and I'm glad I don't work with them. This is one reason why the take home is a great filter.

Point is they don't need to, and companies that insist on it are hurting only themselves.

> But I have seen multiple coworkers with 10-20 years of experience as software engineers with glowing recommendations get fired because they couldn't write software

I can imagine multiple reasons for this to occur at a company and a bunch of them reflect poorly on the build and architecture at the company

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#225

"Take-home technical assignment (~4h)" I've got 20 plus years of tech, I've been out of college since 1997 and you want to give a 4 hour homework assignment. If get you want to get a feel for someone's ability but this is more easily done by stating a problem during one of the interviews and asking the person "How would you approach this?" Listing for how they anticipate problems and tradeoffs.

would you like a take-home or would you like a whiteboard session? I need to have useful information that a candidate is more than a smooth talker.

What do you get from a whiteboard/take home assignment that you can't get from a conversation where you grill them about their answers?

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing with 4hr technical assignments is that you're saying no to anyone with kids, which I'm going to venture applies to more senior people than juniors. I used to do these assignment. Now I simply don't sorry. My schedule is 6:30 AM wake up with youngest daughter, to let wife sleep in (she takes care of her all night) 9:00 AM hand off youngest daughter to wife, who takes both girls the rest of the day. I go to m…

Seems like a good way to weed out people that are constantly taking time off to deal with kid issues.

Oh man, I hope you say things like this out loud so your coworkers and employer can hear you.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#227
post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

Not to mention that usually the required time for take-home assignment is 2-3x the advertised one.

I have not found this to be the case, but I think the usual idea is that if it takes longer than advertised, you should probably stay away from the job.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#229

I do not work in software, so I find how hiring works in it really odd. The amount of weight put on the interview compared to accreditation is unusual, and people in this thread consider that normal. There's no certification or examination for minimum competency. Looking online, there were attempts at making one, but they failed. How did it come to be this way?

Everything about software and software employment is kinda odd. The most relevant college degree is fairly irrelevant to the actual experience and skills necessary to succeed in industry. The field is the result of a merger between rarified theory (computation as applied mathematics) and hands-on practice (organizing sand to conduct electricity in useful ways). There's a high proportion of practitioners without any formal training. The industry has existed for about a half-century, and now more than half of the top ten companies by market cap are software companies.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#230
These days, I find myself slightly-handicapped: I'm had emergency eye surgery to correct a detached retina condition. I'm told that I won't get back normal eyesight in that eye. I practically live-to-code. I used to do 'hardware design' until I spent my middle-age years back in universities getting 2 degrees in computer science. But now, reading tires out my one good eye quickly. I'm not "comfortable" driving a car anymore with my reduced eyesight.

1. I would not want stock or stock options, i don't care who you are, for compensation. 2. Taking care of the commute for me would be very very helpful. 3. You might offer to pay-off my outstanding student loan balance (it's 6 figures at this point) up front. 4. You must favor LGBTQ+ staff.

And yes, I'm sure I won't get hired with this list, so I'll just stay 'retired' as it's easier and cheaper.

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