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Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

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Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#221

Post by garbagetime »

ChrisLomont wrote: post #146
vmception wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> RED Cameras are good and widely used, iirc - probably worth giving them the benefit of the doubt as they’ll not want to damage their reputation and profits by abusing their T&Cs. This is an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy. That particular niche of users has likely never brought it up to people attention. EULA are rarely brought up at all, and when they are its just in some software within tech circles becaus…

>This is an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy Fallacy fallacy. The appeal to authority fallacy would be to claim it's ok for them to do it because they're the best. The OP did not write that. The OP wrote that on the spectrum of how to be worried, since this vendor has a track record of good behavior, and since the EULA pieces are pretty reasonable for the vendor to manage the software (which most film makers li…

I don't think that's a fallacy fallacy. Fallacy fallacy is when there really is a fallacy in a person's argument, and that fact is used to reason that the argument's conclusion is false.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#222

Post by tpxl »

throwaway821909 wrote: post #129
tpxl wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this questionable. You buy the hardware, then get 'the software' for 'free' after the fact. I imagine crypto miners would throw a fit after nVidia made it harder to mine some coins, but none of them ever did? With the amount of money they earn I'd imagine they would.

From https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2021/05/18/lhr/ Because these GPUs originally launched with a full hash rate, we want to ensure that customers know exactly what they’re getting when they buy GeForce products. To help with this, our GeForce partners are labeling the GeForce RTX 3080, RTX 3070 and RTX 3060 Ti cards with a “Lite Hash Rate,” or “LHR,” identifier. The identifier will be in retail product listings and o…

Weren't some old (1xxx and 2xxx series) cards also reduced and promptly 'hacked' a few days later?

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#223

Post by geoduck14 »

garbagetime wrote: post #221
ChrisLomont wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy Fallacy fallacy. The appeal to authority fallacy would be to claim it's ok for them to do it because they're the best. The OP did not write that. The OP wrote that on the spectrum of how to be worried, since this vendor has a track record of good behavior, and since the EULA pieces are pretty reasonable for the vendor to manage the software (which most film makers li…

I don't think that's a fallacy fallacy. Fallacy fallacy is when there really is a fallacy in a person's argument, and that fact is used to reason that the argument's conclusion is false.

I think it is a "bike shed" fallacy - where you dive deep into figuring out what kind of a fallacy it actually is and get totally distracted from the original conversation.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#224

Post by boppo1 »

rurban wrote: post #213
bufferoverflow wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, though, the quality of their codecs suck. The color information just isn't there. You can watch Netflix and immediately tell which things were shot on RED, because they'll be grainy (which they think is a feature) and will lack nuanced color. This is all just false. Their codes allow you to record actual RAW data from the sensor in 16 bits. All the color nuance is there. RED cameras are crazy expensive an…

Bullshit. The Arri Alexa is the gold standard, the RED the cheap alternative. You can immediately see if it was shot with a good camera or a RED.

Can you give me some example scenes to look at?

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#225

Post by JohnHaugeland »

jhugo wrote: post #217
JohnHaugeland wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The courts have repeatedly held that being past that point in an installer is evidence of consent, so take it up with them, I guess

He's not past that point; he hasn't accepted the new terms yet. Did you read the OP?

You're missing the point

He can return it, or he can consent

Nothing here is illegal. This structure is common, even though you guys are saying "that's absurd"

Your indignation and lack of familiarity does not change that this is well accepted in international law

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#226

Post by jhugo »

JohnHaugeland wrote: post #225
jhugo wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not past that point; he hasn't accepted the new terms yet. Did you read the OP?

You're missing the point He can return it, or he can consent Nothing here is illegal. This structure is common, even though you guys are saying "that's absurd" Your indignation and lack of familiarity does not change that this is well accepted in international law

I never said anything is illegal. All I have done is point out why he has a legal right to return it, as not fit for purpose. Apparently we agree, since you said "he can return it, or he can consent".

> Your indignation and lack of familiarity does not change that this is well accepted in international law

There is absolutely nothing whatsoever in international law that is even remotely related to these issues. Consumer rights and sales contracts are national (and in many countries even sub-national, e.g. state) issues.

If you're going to make strong assertions and tell people they're "missing the point" it might be a good idea to a) properly read & comprehend the comments you're replying to, and b) actually know what you are talking about.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#227

Post by eli »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #173
eli wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't pretty much all closed-source proprietary software prohibit reverse engineering and redistribution?

Reverse engineering for interop is legal.

But after you agreed to a contract promising you wouldn’t?

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#228

Post by matyasrichter »

technothrasher wrote: post #57
jrockway wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're entitled to return it for a full refund. The same would be true if you took some video and didn't like how the camera worked, or just got cold feet on your $30k purchase. I get the feeling that you want more than that (like a custom license agreement, or some punishment for the sales person for not mentioning the EULA), and I don't think you're going to get that. Return it for a refund, RED has to sell…

> or just got cold feet on your $30k purchase. You are typically not entitled to a refund in this situation. Many companies will allow it under a goodwill return policy, but they are not legally obligated in most situations.

In the EU, you can return any goods purchased online (not sure about in-store) within 14 days without providing a reason. It's a different process from asking for a refund though the company's return policy.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#229

Post by JohnHaugeland »

jhugo wrote: post #226
JohnHaugeland wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point He can return it, or he can consent Nothing here is illegal. This structure is common, even though you guys are saying "that's absurd" Your indignation and lack of familiarity does not change that this is well accepted in international law

I never said anything is illegal. All I have done is point out why he has a legal right to return it, as not fit for purpose. Apparently we agree, since you said "he can return it, or he can consent". > Your indignation and lack of familiarity does not change that this is well accepted in international law There is absolutely nothing whatsoever in international law that is even remotely related to these issues. Consu…

I'm sorry that you feel that you can enter a conversation, deny it, then reject the existing context of the conversation as something you didn't say.

You cannot.

Good day

.

> it might be a good idea to a) properly read

I'd say the same to you, frankly.

Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?

#230

Post by [deleted] »

BizarroLand wrote: post #189
red_throwaway wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure I would be granted a refund if I asked for one. That being said, I'm not left with a lot of options after returning it because there aren't many comparable alternatives for this class of camera. In fact, I don't know of even one camera that's as high quality without also being almost double the price. RED has a lot of leverage here.

I think you're also overlooking the fact of the sheer file size of RED video footage. It would take them hours or days to upload that video to their servers just to view it to see if it were worth using, and on top of that, no where in it's verbiage does it give them license to use or view your copyrighted work in any way. If you find your work on their site or in their promos, they are in violation of copyright laws…

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