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Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

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221–230 of 506 posts

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#221
As a manager, I have learned that when projects are delayed, 9/10 it is due to bad management (of either the direct manager or the project manager).

Conditional of course that the developer has a sufficient amount of skills and is motivated, which you seem to be.

In my early experiences as a manager, I was frustrated when projects where not delivered on time, and below the expectations. After several iterations on self-evaluation and attempts to do things differently, I eventually found out that structure on the planning, and having a common understanding of the requirements are the key to a successful delivery. As a consequence, I spend now more time on the actual planning (up to 15% is allocated to this), and ensure that everyone has understood the expectations fully.

Those people that I was complaining about before, turned out to become extremely valuable to the company.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#222

> Part of the reason it had taken so long is because I put a substantial amount of work into a part of the project that's no longer necessary due to changing requirements, which I don't think I could have forseen. One of the things that I've experienced with new grad junior devs is that there's an adjustment needed to change from academic working to business working. In academia, usually the professor gives an assign…

Thanks. I definitely will take that into consideration in the future. I'm not sure if it would have helped in this specific case but I can definitely think of other situations at work where taking your advice would have helped me.

It really is the solution to everything. A shitty coder who communicates well will do better in a corporate setting than a good coder who doesn't communicate.

My advice to you: 1. Put serious effort into Slack (or whatever your company uses). It is just as much a part of the job as writing code 2. "You don't get a second chance to make a first impression." I'm not saying you should definitely change companies, but you should seriously consider it, as you are now going to have to put in a ton of effort to regain trust. There is a good chance that you'll have a better ROI just putting in that effort at a new job instead - if you kick ass in your first 6 months to a year, you will enter into a flywheel of being well regarded which makes you more effective, which makes you more well regarded.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#223
If it were me that got talked to like that I'd be furious.

It's totally unprofessional to tell someone they expected the project to be done earlier and criticize your code when it's in a completed state.

Especially if that someone DOESN'T EVEN WORK DIRECTLY WITH YOU #wtf.

You're a junior dev... It's the company's responsibility to provide the adequate processes and mentoring to enable you to grow, and to provide real-time feedback (pair programming / code reviews / presentations / whiteboarding etc).

Also, it's totally unprofessional not to have all the people present in the meeting that are responsible for the delivery of the project. If the manager wasn't there it should have been rescheduled.

In my weathered state as a developer, I'd probably have the balls to write all these points down, and to ask for a meeting with the boss. If they reacted with further gas lighting I'd immediately take my resignation out of my back pocket and hand it to them.

There are a few old consulting tricks to doing this effectively:

Phrase the points as follows:

* Start your point with what you observed or something that is non-subjective

* Avoid saying "you" in a sentence (this is to avoid confrontation and getting someone on the defensive).

* Also, use "we" to make it seem like "we're all in this together as a team" - even if it's just you you're talking about.

* Start how the action made you _feel_. People cannot disagree with your feelings.

* Hear the other person out

* State what you think would be the appropriate approach for next time.

e.g. "In the meeting the other day, a point was made that the project wasn't completed in the time it was expected.

When this point was made, to be honest, it made me feel resentful, as I always put a great deal of care into my work. It also made me feel like I wasn't valued as a team member. I also felt dismissed and not heard out when I explained why things had been done the way that had been.

# wait for reaction

I was thinking about how to improve this situation in the future. First of all, if we find ourselves in this situation again could we make sure that everyone is in the meeting that needs to be? Secondly, I appreciate receiving feedback, however I feel that to do it at the end of a project is much too late. If that's important to you, could we do this more regularly? ... "

This way, if the boss ever tries to hit you up again at the end of a project, you can bring up the conversation that you had in the past. Apply the same methodology to your discussion and you'll end up on top and make them look like the ass they are.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#224

Because this is your first full time professional position, I'm inclined to accept that some of the criticisms are genuine and you have a growth opportunity to learn from them. BUT The part that bothers me, as someone who has been in this industry for almost 25 years and leads teams, is that your manager was not in that meeting with you. That I find absolutely unacceptable. Your manager is not just the person you rep…

It depends on the organization. I worked in a department where the hierarchy was supposedly "flat."

My day to day work and task assignments came from the manager of that project, but I routinely had 1:1 meetings with the VP of the entire department which were more of a personal development/mentorship nature. If there was a concern about the project, though, that would normally also include the manager. It was a small enough department, maybe 12-15 developers, that the VP knew everyone pretty well.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#225
I’ll go out on a limb here and just guess that this boss lives to bash the self-confidence of subordinates.

I realise there’s not a lot of evidence in what you said, but:

1) This is your first job, you’re not expected to know better. Your boss has clearly been in this career for a while to be in charge, so already knew this before criticising you.

2) Your boss telling you that you misunderstood a comment made by your manager is nonsense - he wasn’t there so he has no way of knowing. Not a fan of this word because it’s thrown around for everything, but that to me is transparent gaslighting.

3) You’re more-or-less solo, on a project that they clearly care about enough for it to be a problem - as a first job out of college. That’s just bad management, and no-one competent would expect that to work out - and yet from what you’ve said it has. Good job!

tldr; the problem is very likely not you, but watch out for this dude as there’s a lot of red flags here.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#226
In this case, my strategy would be to turn criticism into a potential improvement, and focus on the improvement.

Take every criticism seriously, frame the problem, and seek a solution. For example, he says your decision to consider an offhand comment from your manager as a hard requirement was a bad decision. First, was it? Let's say it was indeed a mistake. Now, how to avoid repeating the same mistake, because clearly, there is a communication problem. You can then try to make suggestions, maybe formalize requirements a bit more.

And if you have no idea, don't hesitate to ask "How can I do it better?", after all, you are the junior, you have a lot to learn, they have experience, take it. If your boss is as smart as you think he is, only good will come out of it. If he has no idea but he continues criticizing you, maybe he is not that smart after all.

But if the suggested solution is for you to work harder, run away.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#227

> Part of the reason it had taken so long is because I put a substantial amount of work into a part of the project that's no longer necessary due to changing requirements, which I don't think I could have forseen. One of the things that I've experienced with new grad junior devs is that there's an adjustment needed to change from academic working to business working. In academia, usually the professor gives an assign…

I have this junior engineer DM'ing me right now and I've been ignoring it because I don't want to deal with him and I have my own work to do. I'm reading through your comment here thinking "hey, I'm pretty good at walking that line, bothering the professor when appropriate, not waiting too long and not asking him for help too soon"... and then it occurred to me this guy is probably bothering the professor where I'm the professor. Oops. Need to work on being more charitable with my time.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely, I remember as well, that everything they hated me for in school was super beneficial in business. Copying other work? Amazing. Telling boss that I don't have time to do the new task? Trendemous. Solving issue without using latest tech that I just learnt? Incredible. Compaining that some parts of task are harder than anticipated? Brilliant. The only hard part is to bring fake absences into this mindset, so…

You called in sick yesterday and went to the beach with your buddies? I'm glad you did! We all need a mental health day once in a while. Being happy actually makes you more productive in the long term.

> You called in sick yesterday and went to the beach with your buddies? I'm glad you did! We all need a mental health day once in a while. Being happy actually makes you more productive in the long term.

Not quite. It's great when employees take care of themselves and make a point to enjoy their time outside of the office.

However, it's not really cool if you commit to be somewhere on a certain day, no-show, and then lie about being sick.

If you want to take a day off, that's perfectly fine. Please just communicate about it honestly. Don't lie. Reputation and trust are hard to build but easy to destroy.

Also keep your coworkers in mind in these situations. It's rare that engineering work exists in a vacuum without connections to other people's work. If your team mates have to fill in the gaps because you disappeared for a day without warning, that's not really great for the rest of the team.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#229
post #35
post #7

This boss telling you that they felt the project should have been done a long time ago: I wonder who that comment benefits? Feels like no one. You get bummed, they give late feedback without a lot of constructive aspects to it. I am trying to think of one way it was useful to tell you that, but I can’t. Seems like you should feel justified in not being a fan of working under this person. What you do with that is hard…

I agree with this sentiment. And in fact, I’ll take it further: I’m not sure any “you should have” phrase is ever beneficial UNLESS it’s in the context of giving guidance about the future. And even then, it’s better to phrase it as “next time, I would suggest…” This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. “You should have” phrases are often used to berate or make the recipient feel bad while acting as a vent fo…

It can be used in the context of explaining what changes that need to be made to someone's work for it to be acceptable. "You should have used established crypto library calls here instead of rolling your own SHA-256 implementation with probable bugs. Please fix it"

I also think it works well, better than "next time I would", for giving someone permission to do things. "You should have called me when the client asked for XYZ" sounds more forgiving and less venting than "Next time call me when the client asks you for XYZ". Or "you should have felt free to take a mental health day". It's more empowering.

Re: Ask HN: My boss doesn't think I'm doing good work, how to proceed?

#230
post #7

This boss telling you that they felt the project should have been done a long time ago: I wonder who that comment benefits? Feels like no one. You get bummed, they give late feedback without a lot of constructive aspects to it. I am trying to think of one way it was useful to tell you that, but I can’t. Seems like you should feel justified in not being a fan of working under this person. What you do with that is hard…

I'm not sure. I'm glad he told me, otherwise I wouldn't have known I was undershooting his expectations. I did make mistakes that made the project taking longer than it had to. I guess if I want to keep working here I'll need to find a way to make fewer mistakes like that in the future.

> I guess if I want to keep working here I'll need to find a way to make fewer mistakes like that in the future.

Communication is the answer.

If you think you're going to quietly go back to your laptop and solve all of these problems by being more careful, you'll probably end up disappointed.

You should take this as a learning opportunity to improve your communication skills. Communicate early and often. Ask for feedback. Ask for clarification. Ask for code review. Ask for a performance review.

Also: There is some good advice in this comment section, but there's also some absolutely terrible advice. Please ignore all of the low-effort comments insisting that you should quit or the comments suggesting that your boss's boss is malicious "gaslighting" you. This may be your first stumbling block in the workplace, but it won't be your last. If you make a habit of shutting down, quitting, or becoming resentful in these situations then you're never going to learn how to build actual healthy relationships in the workplace. Do as much as you can to learn from this, but make sure you do move on as quickly as possible. Don't let it eat you up.

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