Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 1001 posts

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#221

Post by nfw2 »

In general, I expect most developers aren't working 40 hours and many don't come close. (The amount of upvotes on this thread seems to prove that.) For me, it is hugely dependent on the environment.

By the time I left my last position, I was hardly doing any heads-down work. The team was an internal platform team, and the leadership was actively against sourcing any feedback from the eng/data teams we were meant to serve. The only things that were ever on the roadmap was long-term refactors that no one was asking for. My feedback on the direction of the work was by-and-large ignored, despite the fact that I was the only person writing any code on my project.

I started a new job and it's been a night-and-day different. Furthermore, the lead engineer of the project is a grinder which motivates me to at least pull my own weight.

TL;DR if you're an eng manager and want your team to be engaged, then lead by example, give them tangible goals, and listen to what they have to say.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#222

Post by 5e92cb50239222b »

nostrebored wrote: post #217
methyl wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this way of working and living comes with some significant hazard to your mental health I can relate to that. I used to work not more than it was required for being perceived as a very productive person (10-15 hours / week), but at some point I couldn't stand it. I co-founded a startup and for first two years I easily crossed 60 hours/week on average, yet I was much happier and had more energy than previously. Of c…

60 hour workweeks are absolutely sustainable? Desirable maybe not, but I’ve known lots of people who have worked ten hours a day six days a week. Especially if they don’t have other commitments.

I think many doctors work much more than that (60-80 hours each week) for pretty much their entire careers.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#223

Post by mring33621 »

i_dont_know_ wrote: post #18

I think there's also something to be said for passive processing. Sometimes I'll know I need to write some code or some function and I'll just think about it in the back of my head while doing other things, sometimes for a whole day or two. Then I'll sit down and write it in like 20-30 minutes. Did I work 20-30 minutes, or have I been working for a day or two? I would say a day or two, and the 20-30 minutes was the t…

I almost got fired once for explaining this to my boss. He felt very strongly that each day of a 10 day project should mark 10% in progress. I told him that instead, you think about it, explore a few ideas, then suddenly you might be at 80%. But it's not linear.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#227

Post by ConfessionTime »

cattown wrote: post #132

I've been a software engineer and managed software engineers for 20 years and worked in all kinds of businesses. This is both normal and mostly acceptable, in my professional opinion. Doing just as much work as your employer requires and no more is way less of a problem than employees who actively steal, commit fraud, bring drama and distract other team members, or are introducing defects because they've faked their…

>However! I will say that this way of working and living comes with some significant hazard to your mental health. Doing something you don't like, care about, or believe in for decades long periods of time can really mess with your sense of self worth and happiness in life. You only have one life, do something with it that is satisfying. Get out of the rat race.

This is where my comment about remote work comes into play. When I worked in an office, I spent most of the day just entertaining myself on the internet. That isn't great for long-term mental health. Now that I am working from home I can put in the same level of work while spending the rest of my work day in more satisfying ways as long as I keep an eye on my Slack and email for urgent issues. I can't imagine ever returning to an office in which there is more pressure to spend 8 hours a day sitting in front of my computer.

I have thought about switching careers a few times over the years. However anything I would want to switch to would require a big pay cut. My relatively high salary as a software developer is what enables the rest of my life. Maintaining that lifestyle is my priority as that is where I find my happiness.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#228

Post by tqwhite »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #41

I have never done what you describe, except perhaps in times of illness when it was understood that working less was a reasonable accommodation (in that particular case, I had leftover brain fog from general anesthesia). I've never heard of any colleagues doing it either. I would never snitch if it happened, but I would certainly consider that person untrustworthy or think that they have an undisclosed condition that…

All the other comments about the background processing, waiting for inspiration, only having stamina for a certain amount of time are all correct. For forty years I have lived that life and have never been in a situation where I averaged more than a few hours a day of actual coding. It often takes a long time for me to figure out what to do but, that's work, too.

But, five to ten a week?, get a different job that you like. I have worked in situations where there wasn't really enough to do. My response, write something else. If I was 100% retired I would work more than five or ten hours a week.

And I think, karawebnetwork, that you are right to inquire amount mental health. Having that little energy and motivation is not a good thing.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#229

Post by milofeynman »

syspec wrote: post #55

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Yes exactly this, especially at larger companies. I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... They find a way to make any task take forever... If it was a smaller company they would be called out, but at my [very, very] large company - its very hard to get f…

I still remember one guy who did that and he'd pass work to me I complained to my manager and nothing happened. I work a lot and am super driven. Don't like people like that.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#230

Post by lkrubner »

I think I’d get bored just working 10 hours a week. I’m drawn to ambitious adventures. I like working on insanely bold ideas. But because of this I’ve ended up at a few deeply dysfunctional startups. I wrote about one, a spectacular failure back in 2015. Among the many ridiculous situations we got ourselves into, at one point we had to sit in the office and work for 23 straight hours, from 11 AM to 10 AM the next day, to get ready for a demo the next day. If you’re interested, I wrote all the details here:

https://www.amazon.com/Destroy-Tech-Startup-Three-Steps-eboo...

But I think you can ask why anyone would want to work at such a dysfunctional startup. Why work 70 hours a week when you can make more money for less work? One of the most interesting reviews of my book asked the question:

“Personally, I find the book most interesting not for the absurdly lousy management characters, but for giving a glimpse into the mind of a person that accepts this kind of treatment as okay, shoulders unreasonable burdens, and seems repeatably drawn into difficult situations with the corresponding drama that inevitably ensues.*”

Post reply on HN