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Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

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Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#221

Post by andrepd »

npongratz wrote: post #154
andrepd wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since the actual added performance functionality you get in the porsche today is useless, dangerous, and illegal except on private tracks (and maybe 1% of owners will bring their cars to one of these, far more will drive their cars dangerously on public roads). OT but I don't get why 400bhp cars with "race" suspensions are even road-legal. Why are cars not fitted with a speed limiter? Road accidents are a leading c…

I think if one were to dig into the statistics of road fatalities, they would probably find 400 HP race-suspended muscle cars are not a major mass murdering menace.

Pedestrian and cyclist deaths are on the rise in developed countries, as cars are ever safer for the drivers and more dangerous for the fragile sacks of meat in the street walking about their day.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#222

Post by 2rsf »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #128
at_a_remove wrote: post #64

I think that you can take all of the differentiators that exist for ICE vehicles (price, reliability, status ...) and then add in some new factors: 1) Range anxiety 2) Recharge concerns (plays into range anxiety) 3) Novel technology fears (will my trusted mechanic of twenty years be able to handle this or am I stuck with the dealership?) 4) "Handling" -- will this drive like my old ICE car? Apparently a major irritat…

Range anxiety regarding electric vehicles seems to be something that mostly afflicts those who do not have an EV. I have a 2015 Model S 70D with a range of about 330 km. In the three years and 70 thousand km that I have been driving it I have had only three occasions when I was anxious about the range. Most new EVs have better range than that so most buyers of new EVs from now on should have even less reason to be co…

my vacation house is 200 km away and have barely enough electricity to support itself, many other Swedes drive further away and have less electricity available.

I agree that for routine day-to-day driving, visiting friends running errands or even shorter trips, electrical is the way to go but it really depends on you situation.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#223

Post by 2rsf »

goatcode wrote: post #136

Hopefully there will be at least one company that will offer a hackable car. I'd hate to be locked into doing only the things the designers want me to do with a thing I own.

I doubt that it will be by design, cars carry too much legal liabilities for that. But even now you can hack your car's suspension, engine or exhaust system sometimes at the cost of loosing your new car guarantee.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#224

Post by jjtheblunt »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #173
jjtheblunt wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Range anxiety... it also affects early buyers who knew it, like our 2014 BMW i3's range, original small battery, is around 70 miles. I imagine range anxiety is a function of total battery capacity, to your point somewhat. But my 70 miles (or so) range means i have to be very aware where i can recharge.

Yes, in your case you do have to be careful and very range aware . But those who make the most noise about range always seem to be those who do not have an EV. And also there do not seem to be many accounts of people going back to ICE cars.

i totally agree.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#225

Post by ungamedplayer »

baybal2 wrote: post #56
ungamedplayer wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about improved battery tech, Weight distribution, Software updates, Safety equipment, internal computers, in car entertainment, in-wheel motors, drive-train connections to electronic towing, theft deterrence ?

> What about improved battery tech? We haven't seem much improvement on the market since second gen ternary hit. All coming improvements will be very gradual. Cars on the market already hit possible upper/lower weight, and size limits for the battery pack. > Weight distribution Any other than low, and centre? > Software updates Do you want to play videogames on your car? Will you pay few thousand dollars more for a U…

Rather than debate each of these, you have agreed that there is a difference just nothing that you specifically care about.

> Will you pay few thousand dollars more for a UI skin update once a year?

What ? no.. I never said that these were paid updates, I said this was differentiator. Do you want security updates ? Or just to have the software abandoned once it ships.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#226

Post by goatcode »

2rsf wrote: post #223
goatcode wrote: post #136

Hopefully there will be at least one company that will offer a hackable car. I'd hate to be locked into doing only the things the designers want me to do with a thing I own.

I doubt that it will be by design, cars carry too much legal liabilities for that. But even now you can hack your car's suspension, engine or exhaust system sometimes at the cost of loosing your new car guarantee.

I could hope that the hackability could at least extend to changing behaviors not related to safety, but I'd imagine there would be some justification for just about anything being about safety.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#227

Post by lowbloodsugar »

nikau wrote: post #220
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using "maintenance" in this context to refer to repairing parts that might wear out or break, such as perhaps a suspension component, or a door handle breaking? Because I'm only considering "regular" maintenance that most people do every X miles or Y years. For a Tesla, the only "regular" maintenance is cabin filters, tire-related maintenance, brake fluid, an A/C. The 12V battery also needs replacement period…

What's the point of compartmentalizing it other than to push a misleading "EVs are cheaper" narrative? If it costs money its adds to the total cost of ownership, whether its preventative maintenance or unscheduled break fix. The only difference with preventative is its scheduled so you can organize the work to fit your schedule without much inconvenience. At the end of the day you need to factor in the entire cost of…

"Analysis of real-world maintenance and repair cost data from thousands of CR members shows that BEV and PHEV owners are paying half as much as ICE owners are paying to repair and maintain their vehicles."

- Consumer Reports [1]

[1] https://advocacy.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020...

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#228

Post by decafninja »

nikau wrote: post #205
protastus wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Cars have steadily gotten heavier and the EV conversion is making this worse. Are most drivers aware though, or only racing enthusiasts? I think on a daily driver car, the weight increase has been masked since most people drive on smooth paved roads where there's no loss of traction (especially with ABS brakes and some form of traction control being standard). ICEs have improved power and efficiency to compensat…

For most drivers the weight is hidden by 8+ speed gearboxes, powerful fuel efficient engines and sticky tires compared to cars from 20 years ago.

Yup - this. I think for most drivers, they simply don't care unless it noticeably affects them in some way.

Plus the average consumer probably doesn't care at all about handling characteristics.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#229

Post by mikewarot »

fiftyfifty wrote: post #139
neogodless wrote: post #29

56 million cars sold last year. How many do you think were bought because they do not create emissions, or because of any serious consideration of the engineering behind them? People buy a Toyota Corolla or Prius because it's below the median price, reliable and efficient. They will buy it and then never think about it again because it'll "just work." People buy a Ford F150 because they either have some real use for…

I think several of your categories nailed what the vast majority of car owners are looking for: an transportation appliance. This is where I think EVs will eventually dominate the market, the only thing you will have to worry about is plugging it in. The simplicity of the electric drive train will make them even more reliable (and efficient) than the best gas vehicles today. No more oil changes. No more random fluid…

Note: There are actually a few important liquids in a Tesla as noted here: https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/62638/so-what-fluids-are...

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#230

Post by readonthegoapp »

decafninja wrote: post #186
neogodless wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 3 to 5 years we should see autonomous vehicles I've heard this before... ah yes. Five years ago[0]. Now, I'm not saying this won't happen. But predicting timelines on something that does not yet exist is tricky. More to your point though... right now a lot of people value having "their" car despite all the drawbacks you listed. It can certainly vary (i.e. city vs suburbs vs rural) but people like just leaving st…

Slight tangent, but I've noticed there are two types of Tesla fans. They intersect somewhat, but also have big areas of disagreement. The first are car enthusiasts. They like the cars Tesla is producing. The second are robotaxi/FSD evangelists. They want Tesla to spearhead the movement of ultimately eliminating (or significantly reducing) car ownership in favor of the robotaxi network. In fact, some of them even want…

The autonomous thing should help increase VMT significantly

Possibly drastically and fatally

But not unexpectedly

We need a carbon tax stat

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