Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 258 posts

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#221

Post by imtringued »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #176
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have reason to suspect that the job market will be somewhat recessed in the coming time then getting a PhD might be a reasonable strategy to ride that time out.

I tend to disagree with this. PhD's tend to work in advanced areas of companies. When recessions hit, R&D is one of the first places to take a hit.

It's the opposite. R&D is a long term investment. When a company starts a new project in a recession then the recession will be over by the time the project has been completed. When a recession coincides with the completion of a project then you can't travel back in time to undo the decision.

Recessions generally hurt companies that sell directly to consumers the most. Business to business companies are usually affected the least.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#222

Post by nikkwong »

chasedehan wrote: post #164
peterwoerner wrote: post #78

I have a PhD (in mech engineering) and work in industry. My experience was that I basically had to pick up a new physics set and tool set every year as I jumped from algorithm development, to constitutive model development, machine learning, and quantum computing. In all cases they were tackling problems in different areas: new toolset to learn, new math to learn and new physics to learn. I thoroughly enjoy working o…

> Advice: Get a job, the PhD will be waiting for you in 2 years if you decide you want it then. Plus it sounds like you are thinking about getting a PhD because looking for a job is hard. Almost no one who takes that advice returns to get a PhD, the income is too hard to give up and often life moves on which makes it hard to take the financial hit and devote the time. The only way it worked for me was to not need muc…

Not sure. I'm in my 20's and have done well enough in industry (programming) and with side projects to not have to worry about making money any more. Now that basic needs are met, the question is how to spend my time in the ways that are the most interesting to me.

As just someone with some business savvy and programming skills, I could go work as a staff engineer somewhere—but that probably won't be that interesting or impactful. If I go work at FAANG I'll probably work on ads or tweaking existing systems—a cog in the wheel.

So the idea of going back to school to try for a PhD in some interesting field is now something I'm considering seriously. I graduated from college 5 years ago and I remember thinking about how badly I wanted to stop studying and start making money in the 'real world'. Funny how retrospectively I can see how that was all subliminally motivated by finances; and now that such pressure has subsided, life is much more about fields of interest and purposeful work.

The question is then, will a PhD always lead to meaningful work, or am I digging myself into a hole, and I don't really know the answer to that.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#223

Post by ska »

Here is my general related advice for people thinking about a Ph.D. in STEM. In no particular order

- don't go to a program unless you are paid enough for it to at least cover costs. Preferably an ok salary.

- it will likely hurt your lifetime earnings, think about if that matters to you.

- done right, it's probably the most interesting work you will have for it's own sake

- ... but it probably wont' have any broad impact

- absolutely do it if you think you want an academic career

- ... but think about a plan B for when you decide you don't, or they decide you won't

- if you are going because you want a more "interesting" career in industry you usually should have

a) worked in that industry before going and

b) have a precise idea of the degree program, topic(s), and then the jobs you are targeting

- it will be a lot of work, and a lot of fun. Sometimes on the same day but not always. If it isn't both on average you should consider leaving.

- the degree itself isn't going to do much for you in industry unless your area of study overlaps with something in current demand. That's often a bit of a crapshoot when you are looking 5+ years ahead.

- if you are considering going because you can't think of what else to do at the moment, don't.

- some jobs will pass you over because they are worried you will be bored. Sometimes they are right.

- some jobs will pass you over because they are worried you are "too academic". Sometimes they are right - you will have to prove you are practical also. This will take time.

- some jobs will pass you over because they don't value the education or think you didn't gain anything useful from it. They are mostly wrong (but consider if you want to work in that environment).

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#224

Post by imtringued »

PyroLagus wrote: post #79
mrlala wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if it has no value to industry, chances are it has no real value to history/humankind other than "oh that's kind of interesting"

Value isn't always apparent immediately. Quantum theory seemed largely useless, but now it's useful in computing.

Unless you mean something very specific by "Quantum theory" I don't understand how you can even make that statement about such a broad topic. Quantum mechanics are extremely useful.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#226

Post by musicale »

fightme wrote: post #101

CS PhD from Stanford in dynamic program analysis. Lost all my friends. Ghosted by companies for jobs directly related to my research. Everyone I knew who went directly into industry is doing way better than me. My salary has only tracked inflation. I sorely regret the decision and consider it to have fundamentally ruined my life beyond repair.

It seems to me that as a Ph.D. you have, largely on your own, figured out how to solve some very hard problems and smash some very large rocks. The hard problems/big rocks you are faced with now have just changed somewhat: finding work you enjoy; making enough money and/or matching expenditures to income; forming/restoring friendships and social bonds. Those are very challenging problems, but they are solvable.

Regarding being ghosted: 1) it's not you, it's the research job market and/or the the stupid way most companies hire people, and 2) companies routinely ghost applicants - it's incredibly rude but shockingly common. Job-hunting is a weird game but there are probably some winning strategies.

And as Kierkegaard didn't say: "Get a Ph.D., and you will regret it; don't get a Ph.D., and you will also regret it; get a Ph.D. or do not get a Ph.D., you will regret it either way...This, gentlemen, is the essence of all [doctors of] Philosophy." ;-)

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#228

Post by [deleted] »

gatherhunterer wrote: post #146
fightme wrote: post #101

CS PhD from Stanford in dynamic program analysis. Lost all my friends. Ghosted by companies for jobs directly related to my research. Everyone I knew who went directly into industry is doing way better than me. My salary has only tracked inflation. I sorely regret the decision and consider it to have fundamentally ruined my life beyond repair.

Imagine telling any of the thousands of homeless people in the Bay Area that a Stanford PhD program “ruined my life beyond repair”. Maybe it is a lack of general life experience that is holding you back.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#229

Post by phdthrowawaydoc »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #91
tagrun wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because in the US, PhD is actually the combination of masters degree (typically 2 years) and PhD (typically 3-4 years) in other countries. At least in sciences, US universities don't typically even offer a MSc program; people can get MSc by enrolling into PhD, which is typically the only available graduate program, and quitting it after completing the coursework.

That isn’t really true either. We don’t receive masters degrees unless we do a gentleman’s withdraw, then it’s only an M Phil. If you come into a PhD program with an MSC, you can still take 8 years to finish, ya, you get to skip some course requirements, but that isn’t where the majority of the time in a PhD goes. MSC’s aren’t offered as much anymore because they had the same problem as PhDs (it could take 4 years to…

In many US schools, an undergrad entering a PhD program will need to satisfy the Masters requirements along the way. The only way you don't end up with an MS degree is if you forget to file the paperwork.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#230

Post by tagrun »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #91
tagrun wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because in the US, PhD is actually the combination of masters degree (typically 2 years) and PhD (typically 3-4 years) in other countries. At least in sciences, US universities don't typically even offer a MSc program; people can get MSc by enrolling into PhD, which is typically the only available graduate program, and quitting it after completing the coursework.

That isn’t really true either. We don’t receive masters degrees unless we do a gentleman’s withdraw, then it’s only an M Phil. If you come into a PhD program with an MSC, you can still take 8 years to finish, ya, you get to skip some course requirements, but that isn’t where the majority of the time in a PhD goes. MSC’s aren’t offered as much anymore because they had the same problem as PhDs (it could take 4 years to…

What exactly isn't true about it? In all institutions that I know all, students are given MSc status as soon as they complete the requirements, not M Phil (never even heard of it).

Some students leave the school after that point, but it doesn't invalidate their MSc, nor their MSc gets converted to M Phil or whatever. It's not a common thing, but I've seen students drop with MSc mostly because of issues with their supervisors (tenured faculty without much incentive to do research at a good pace).

Edit: I looked it up, and apparently, you're making a blanket statement based on a niche practice in a handful of US universities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Philosophy#United_St...

"Although most American universities do not award the MPhil, a few award it under certain circumstances."

Post reply on HN