Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#221

Post by Balgair » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

lordofmoria wrote: post #111

woah wrote: post #84

I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves and often have a belief that anyone successful must be taking stimulants secretly. It plays into the motivation of most stimulant users which is that the stimulants have given them a special cheat code in life. I worked in construction in my young…

Logged in to upvote this. Birds of a feather flock together. I’ve personally never come across anyone who (admits) to using anything stronger than Redbull. In fact, we have some employees who don’t even drink coffee, opting for “natural” stimulants which come with less of a crash. Yerba Mate seems particularly popular these days. However, I may be in my own bubble; I’m very interested in seeing what you find!

Mate is the 'same' as coffee, in that it's just caffeine. There is some research to say that the mate derived caffeine is largely an isomer of caffeine, in that the molecule is shaped differently. This is then used to explain why mate is more potent to users without a habituation to coffee derived caffeine. However, the research is still ongoing and the isomer theory is not yet proved, AFAIK. Likely it's just a placebo effect, but a strong one nonetheless.

Having spent some time in South America, mate sure is nice and a good change of pace. In the countrysides, it's not uncommon to see people with large thermoses slung under the elbow (for hot water) and a mate gourd in the same hand, happily sipping the days away. I'd recommend it for anyone looking to add some variety in your daily routine. Be advised that it is an acquired taste and may take a week to get used to, just like coffee was in the beginning.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerba_mate

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Guayaki-Traditional-Organic-Yerba-Loo...

[2] https://www.amazon.com/Mategreen-M0035-Argentina-Yerba-Gourd...

(though there are cheaper gourds that can just sit without tipping, I prefer the traditional hand-held ones)

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#222

Post by oceanghost » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #215

oceanghost wrote: post #146

Yes. This is something that needs to be discussed. Almost every engineer is using some kind of stim in the morning and sedative in the evening. This can be as benign as caffeine/alcohol, but I've seen this escalate to any one of: caffeine, Provigil, cocaine, (meth)amphetamines on the front end, and alcohol, THC, Xanax and even ketamine on the backend. It's the only way to deal with the abusive hours. We used to joke…

> "caffeine, Provigil, cocaine, (meth)amphetamines on the front end, and alcohol, THC, Xanax and even ketamine on the backend" I know what you're saying (up vs down), but it's amusing to think of this as what front end and backend devs are taking.

lol!

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#223

Post by medmj » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

I work with information security. I have depression and anxiety (I know lots in infosec and software engineering who also has - maybe it's a mix of loneliness, impostor syndrome and the feeling of underachievement?) and I use marijuana (a blunt per night) to help me treat it. It doesn't affect on my daily work in any bad way. Besides that, on the past I've used a lot of alcohol and occasionaly MDMA to party on weekends, which didn't lead me to heavier drugs and/or more frequent uses and it also didn't affect my job.

As a side note, I'm not sure about the relationship between this industry (infosec) and mental health issues, but, from what I know/have seen, the numbers are very high compared to other industries. And mental health is sure worth a look to find more about drug (ab)use in a particular industry.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#224

Post by davidsong » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

raphlinus wrote: post #202

I'll add a data point, though it's almost entirely negative. I've been at Google over 10 years and have yet to come across a person using illegal hard drugs. I can think of three people with serious drinking problems. There's been a drinking culture (many offices have beer on tap), but I see that changing, as people are more conscious of the negative effects. A bunch of people use marijuana, but off-hours. I haven't…

Is it that because you don't use drugs, the people who do use them tend not to discuss them with you? I was just joking with a colleague about trying the gas and air when his wife gives birth, and everyone in our bank of desks thought that would be outrageous behaviour.

There's no way I'd admit to these guys that I have a load of N2O canisters stashed at home and will go full-balloonatic during festival season, let alone anything else I may or may not get up to.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#225

Post by Blahah » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

whalesalad wrote: post #205

woah wrote: post #84

I would be careful of overestimating the amount of stimulant use based on comments and emails here. People who use a lot of stimulants tend to love talking about themselves and often have a belief that anyone successful must be taking stimulants secretly. It plays into the motivation of most stimulant users which is that the stimulants have given them a special cheat code in life. I worked in construction in my young…

I can totally see where you are coming from, but I hope you aren't directing your comments towards what I said above. I actually felt pretty vulnerable submitting my comment (as opposed to being someone who loves to talk about myself) It seems to be resonating with others now, so that feeling has warn off, but initially I was a little concerned to open up and be so candid in a public forum. Also, I did not intend to…

Just to chime in, in my response to OP I felt like I was making myself vulnerable. I was honest about what I experience because someone asked and was clearly hurt in the past by the lack of honesty around it.

I don't feel attacked, but I also really hope I'm right about that. People talking about this stuff openly are exposing themselves. I didn't do it to brag. I just saw someone who was making a genuine request for experiences like mine, and I answered.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#226

Post by loeg » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

Eilene wrote: post #168

Blahah wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at Cambridge for 4 years and I can safely say that none of the professors in my department were using stimulants other than coffee. I can clock someone who is up across a crowded room. None of them were ever up. A large number of the ambitious PhD students and postdocs were though, and a very large proportion of the undergraduates. I think it's probably a generational thing. Students sell to students. Nobody is…

how can you tell if someone is up? Just from years of using stimulants yourself or are there obvious, telltale signs? I missed a boatload of them with Peter.

(Excess) scratching, excess fidgeting. Staring off into the distance in the same direction for a while. Overconfidence and they really like to talk about stimulants ;-).

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#227

Post by wcarron » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

Well, there are recreational and performance-enhancing drugs. The attitudes about the two types are different.

Coffee, alcohol, nicotine, and pot are all just normalized. Nobody cares. We chat about it in passing (e.g "so Friday I was high....blah blah rest of story"). Coffee is perf-enhancing but people treat it recreationally.

The performance stuff is alluded to but not really in any detail. Cocaine, adderall, ritalin, modafinil are all considered "ok", to some extent. As in, "ok. You do you, I guess" and it's fine as long as productivity isn't impacted. Cocaine is definitely the black sheep of that bunch, but it's still a fairly clean sheep.

Psychedelics/dissociatives are never admitted to, at least where I work. I have used them (LSD, DXM) but I wouldn't ever consider doing them at work or on a weeknight. They have little business in programming, I think.

Then, finally, the "white-trash" drugs. I don't know anyone who uses opiates, meth, crack, PCP, ketamine, kolonopin, etc. RXs are probably being abused more than I'm aware, but generally, our drug use is pretty elitist. If a poor person would do these drugs, not-poor people stringently avoid it.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#228

Post by whalesalad » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #218

whalesalad wrote: post #5

Adderall and Cocaine. I remember a CEO of one of my early startups would give me 5mg addies to help me get more done. I appreciated it because it was great to get the added boost to focus. I eventually worked my way up to taking 30mg of XR daily (legally, doctor prescribed) and it was the most productive I have ever been in my life. I worked 24x7. I was working a normal consulting job while also working on a startup/…

> I remember a CEO of one of my early startups would give me 5mg addies to help me get more done. That person ought to be in jail. A CEO is definitely not in charge of the pharmacy, anything of this kind should be prescribed by your doctor.

Even though the entire ethos of my comment suggests that you wanna stay away from this stuff ... occasional/recreational use is not a big deal. He never pushed it on me, it was just something that I could take advantage of on occasion.

I don't look back on it and think it was predatory or a big deal or a malicious thing. I definitely don't think he deserves to be in jail or punished.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#229

Post by oceanghost » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

Eilene wrote: post #182

oceanghost wrote: post #146

Yes. This is something that needs to be discussed. Almost every engineer is using some kind of stim in the morning and sedative in the evening. This can be as benign as caffeine/alcohol, but I've seen this escalate to any one of: caffeine, Provigil, cocaine, (meth)amphetamines on the front end, and alcohol, THC, Xanax and even ketamine on the backend. It's the only way to deal with the abusive hours. We used to joke…

I'd love to talk to you. Did this happen a long time ago, your experience(s)? or was this in the last 4 years? Also, to reiterate, do not need to use your name, etc. Don't even need to know it to speak to you.

All recently. I assume the e-mail address listed in your e-mail is an appropriate contact point?

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#230

Post by Superpangloss » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

Eilene wrote: post #126

nathan_long wrote: post #34

Glad you're looking into this. As a counterpoint: I've been a developer 10 years. I've worked at a few established businesses, two startups (one U.S. based and one German), and two consultancies. I worked in-person in Charlotte, N.C. and remotely since then. I've never worked in Silicon Valley. One employer had a "play hard" culture, encouraging alcohol (ab)use outside of work. I didn't stay there long. Perhaps I've…

a problem for me, as a reporter, is the lack of statistical evidence of any kind for this. It's very difficult to get an accurate portrayal of the problem based on surveys that would require self-reports. That's why forums like these are helpful in informing my reporting.

There are reports of cocaine being detected in waste water (1). You could approach water companies to see how granular their data is. Perhaps you can see that there are peaks of coke in the sewers near Wall Street or Madison Avenue.

[1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cocaine-use-i...