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Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

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Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#221
post #169
post #8

Want to put in a quick plug for Sacramento. Great quality of life here, generally great weather (sometimes a little hot in summer, but sunny most of the year), affordable housing with rents between $500 and $1,000 (and affordable to buy a house - still good places available for under $300k), nice neighborhoods, great amenities, bars, restaurants, all that. Good access to awesome outdoors. And really easy to get to th…

I've entertained the idea of living in Sacramento, mostly because it's closer to the Sierras than SF. But one question: do you guys have air conditioning? I presume so, if it gets hot. SF's lack of air conditioning is brutal!

Sacramento gets about 3-6 weeks of 100+ weather a year, and probably 1-2 weeks worth of freezing weather (freezing overnight only). Almost all homes and cars sold here have AC. The heat here is pretty dry so people complain about it but not a lot. Sacramento very consistently gets a ~30mph wind from the southwest in the summer (we call it the "Delta Breeze") that will push temperatures at night down to the 70s or 60s. I rarely run the AC in my house here overnight and instead open the windows after ~9pm.

Honestly, a bigger problem for a lot of transplants to Sacramento is allergens. We're right at the tip of the central valley and lots of stuff will bloom in the spring and fall and lots of people will be red faced and sneezing for a week or two.

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting you brought up Montreal, since I've been hearing a little amount of buzz about it, at least from this link: https://www.busbud.com/blog/benefits-of-being-a-montreal-sta... Vancouver is more expensive, and Toronto has more traffic, from what I've heard, but the low salaries in MTL sound like a downer.

No question the salaries are lower, but two things balance that out. Income distribution is somewhat more even in Canada, so maybe you don't make as much but the people in 'lower' positions make more, relatively. This is actually a feature, not a bug - the city is safe, there is still a middle class, public services work (relatively) well and you can walk around as a tech person without worrying about a person random…

Those are all helpful and reassuring things to know. Thanks for answering some of the critiques!

One more question- how's the climate? Montreal is north of Chicago and New York, after all...

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#223

Phoenix is often not included when discussing tech cities, and I think it's a shame. I've lived here my entire life and have seen the startup and tech scenes evolve and mature having started 2 companies here. Just in the past few years, the number of quality startups and investments have soared and I believe we're at the inflection point that will make Phoenix equitable to SV. We have a low cost of living, affordable…

I grew up in Phoenix and loved it. I ended up moving to Utah for school and stayed there for 10 years but we finally got sick of the snow and decided it was time to move our family back. Schools and housing are great and you don't need to shovel sunshine!

Of course, I wish the tech scene was better. But I'm making an active effort to seek out the local dev meetups and contribute to the community.

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#224
post #120

I'm particularly biased as I went to school at GaTech but Atlanta has greatly improved over the last decade or so. It obviously has a completely different social, ethnic and economic diversity than SF does as well as being far far more cost effective. It also has real BBQ as well as being not that far from Miami (my favorite city but not good to live/work in). I would recommend Boston (where I currently live) except…

Atlanta has a lot of good stuff going for it, midtown area and the tech village up in Buckhead have some promising startups. Few other south eastern cities to add to OPs list: Charlotte isn't bad either and has a similar if less developed vibe, lot of financial business around there. People seem split on whether they like it or Raleigh more, seems like a toss up. For a smaller city Chatanooga has a lot going for it.

I've been really interested in Chattanooga ever since they installed citywide fiber and announced their tech incubator. One of the lowest costs of living and great outdoor activities. Just not too sure about the cultural infrastructure. Looking forward to visiting soon. I'm kinda obsessed with the idea of incubating a remote company in another city and then moving/expanding back to the Bay.

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They say Seattle is like a beautiful women (or man) who is sick 9 months of the year.

They say that just to keep the bastards out.

Why would they care how many parents you have?

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#226

Maybe everyone leaving should just agree to locate somewhere that isn't some major city. We can all go there & start a new tech scene. How about Wyoming? Or Montana? Utah? What I mean is we should go somewhere beautiful. Somewhere we can take walks outdoors in between coding sprints. Why walks? It's been scientifically shown that walking helps you remember things better. Also sitting too long shortens your lifespan.…

Utah already has a tech scene - not as happening as SV or even Denver, but there is one, in Orem and Salt Lake. You've got ski resorts 45 minutes from town - or hiking, fishing, and mountain biking in the summer. The quality of snow makes most other ski places look pretty bad, too. (They call it the greatest snow on earth for a reason.) You've got pretty sane living expenses, including housing, at least compared to S…

What do techies do in Utah for after-work social gatherings, Mormon Bridge? I should know since I come from Utah valley myself, but I got out to Seattle as soon as I could and there weren't many peers into programming for a living while I was in school there. I don't drink but my current company has a huge alcohol culture, kegs-in-the-office, weekly-happy-hours sort of thing, and as far as I can tell this is pretty normal everywhere in San Francisco and Seattle (such that I'm not even sure if we're that extreme). I enjoy sit-down dinners with coworkers but if I were back in Utah I have a feeling that heading up the canyon and cooking some meat over a fire with some light wandering wouldn't be out of the question...

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#227

I am biased but I liked Chicago. You can get a good house for a decent price. If you want to raise a family though, inside the city schools suck - you have to play a lottery or try to test into a good school or pay for private. That said you won't find startup jobs like SF, a lot of the top paying jobs like NYC are in finance.

Pricing for housing is definitely cheaper in Chicago but the pay sucks. It's not uncommon for lead-engineers to make < 6-figures. Tech is definitely not a priority in that city which may or may not be a bad thing.

Getting 6 figs is not hard in Chicago. Getting 200k is hard.

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is the dream, but the reality for many people is that they need to be where the jobs are. For those who are not developers easily able to get remote work, that's a major consideration. What's the job market near you like? How long is the average commute? Those are both major considerations for a lot of folks. (PS I'm not criticizing you--major props for living your dream. I just think that people rea…

"Upstate New York" is a very large area. It would be tough to generalize... I'm in the Syracuse area (smack in the middle of the state), and the local scene is reasonably unimpressive (I work remotely, as do most of the folks I know in the area). There is a bit of a tech job market 45 minutes east of here in Rome, but that's mostly DoD related work (Rome Labs, etc). An hour and a half south is Ithaca, which is a 'hip…

I grew up in cuse and went to school at RIT.

Why I'd never go back: 1. Snow, 2. Taxes

Why I'd go back: 1. Insanely cheap 2. Hot plates

Thus is life.

Re: Ask HN: Moving Out of Silicon Valley because of housing? Where to?

#230
I haven't seen anyone specifically comment on Nashville so I figure I'll chime in and give you my $.02.

I did my undergrad at Vanderbilt in Nashville, moved to Mountain View for two years to work at Google and moved back a year ago after realizing living in California didn't work for me.

Pros: - No state income tax in Tennessee - Tons of stuff to do. There's way more than just Honky Tonks and country music. Professional football and hockey teams and a decent minor league baseball team. People go to the symphony and see shows at TPAC regularly. The Frist usually has interesting art exhibits, as does Cheekwood (also a botanical garden). If you prefer to be outdoors, there are plenty of places to hike, climb, kayak, etc. It might not be quite as striking as Yosemite or Marin, but the nature here is still quite beautiful. - Housing is cheap (relatively). A lot of people (short and long timers) have taken to complaining about housing prices recently, and to be fair they have gone up quite a bit from where they were. It's not as cheap as Chattanooga or other smaller cities but it's still _very_ affordable compared to California. I recently closed on a house just using money I saved from working in CA for my down payment. - Growing tech scene. It's really night and day even from when I graduated 3 years ago. Tons of meet ups and the community is really awesome. A growing number of companies - and the companies here tend to be more focused on actually growing a business instead of just hitting a valuation. - Food. Awesome restaurant scene. Obviously more BBQ and Southern focused though. - Friendly. People in Nashville are very friendly. I think this is immediately noticeable, but I enjoy having conversations with random people I run into. - Centrally located. They've added direct flights to the Bay Area recently, and you're a day's drive from a good chunk of the eastern half of the country (you can get to Chicago, Oklahoma City, New Orleans, Orlando, or Buffalo within a day's drive).

Cons: - Davidson County schools aren't great. Lots of people with kids live in other counties and commute in to get better schools. - Traffic. This isn't as bad as other major metro areas, but depending on where you live it can be significant. - Not very walkable. There are a few areas that are walkable (12 South, Hillsboro, places in East Nashville) but you need a car. Public transit is pretty bad.

Neutral: - More conservative state politics. Nashville is fairly liberal, but there's definitely still a conservative bent at the state level. I put this in neutral because I don't think it's all bad (remember, no state income tax) but you may end up getting upset about state legislation. - Weather. Really hot summers. Winters aren't too bad. Occasional snow, and it can actually get chilly. Lots of rain (compared to CA). I don't think this is bad because I actually enjoy having seasons. - Big healthcare focus (both small and large companies).

tl;dr - Nashville is awesome, and I'm really happy I moved back. It's not as easy as the Bay Area to job hop, but I'm not worried about finding work when I do decide to make a jump.

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