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Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

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Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#211
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An impressive example of the senior developer route is David Maynard of Box.com: "Sometimes I have to leave a company when I get promoted to the stage when I can’t code anymore" ( http://www.fastcolabs.com/3007250/open-company/boxs-65-year-... )

Cool, he cites Kelly Johnson as one of the two 'visionary's' he's worked with other than Englebert. Johnson is known in aerospace as the guy at Lockheed behind the SR-71 Blackbird.

He's somewhat more important than just the SR-71. He's the father of the entire Skunk Works project, and is also responsible for the P-38, U-2, and F-104, and had hands in at least another dozen important aircraft... and bundling them all up.. Area 51.

So yeah, he's one of the most important figures in aerospace of the last century. Billing him as 'merely' the guy behind the SR-71 is actually selling him short.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks keeping score at home should note the successful DC area contractors in this thread. DC is full to the gills with easy, good-paying software work from budgets that need spending. But I don't think that it is a good place to be for your career if you are interested in the technology, unless you are able and willing to get a TSC, and to perform the sort of work that requires one. I recently relocated from the DC…

What is a TSC and how do I get one?

It's a "Top Secret Clearance," a certificate saying that you are trustworthy to perform top secret government work. Based on what I've heard from others, getting one includes taking a lie detector test, having family members, neighbors, and colleagues interviewed, and hopefully not too many other probing things. My impression is that any warm-bodied US citizen who doesn't have much of a record, and who knows the right things to say, can get a TSC unless their nationality gets in the way.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#213
An interesting comment on a Valleywag article -

"I am a 20 year resident currently in the process of being "de-located", and will be leaving San Francisco in a few weeks, destination unknown. A little known secret about the tech industry is that if you're not in your 20s or early 30s, you are basically unemployable. It's a great gig for the kiddies, but if you're an adult with a family and responsibilities, you'll learn all about the magic of "at will" employment. Not to mention that many/most of these companies are run by financial criminals/sociopaths who could care less about anything other than lining their own pockets."

Comment on http://valleywag.gawker.com/twitter-will-cause-so-much-gentr...

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#214
post #29

It seems that they go a few directions: The most common seems to be to try and generalize, because relearning most of your job skills every few years starts to get annoying the 20th time you've had to do it. It's different when you are younger and everything is new, you just chalk up a major tooling change as just something else to learn. But when the next hot platform or architecture or whatever comes out you get ti…

Pretty much covers it. If all you do is 'write code' then you have to be prepared to start 'write the same code in a new "paradigm" several times.' Once that starts you'll do one of two things, either get bitter and grouchy and become unemployable as a coder (trust me when I say that nobody likes working with someone constantly whining about how they already wrote this code 5, 10, 15 years ago), or you will change th…

>As a coder, your pay will definitely plateau.

Mine seems to keep climbing. I'm hearing reports of >$300k, and have received an offer in that range myself (counting signing bonuses and stock grants). Granted my pay might plateau there, but honestly that's enough money to keep me happy without having to see it go up every year.

I'm a total generalist, but I also have a few areas where I would qualify as a specialist; that offer I'm sure was because of the specific skills I've built up. I've also been programming professionally since 1989, and I try to keep learning, which can't hurt.

Agree that keeping it fun is key. :)

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that also really depends on what kind of gigs you get. for example here in the DC area there are lots of independent contractors that have steady multi-year contracts. as long as you're not total dead weight you do the hourly thing for a long time. many years. It's more rare to find those folks that go from solo gigs to having other subcontractors going through them too. That's when all your points become really impo…

Folks keeping score at home should note the successful DC area contractors in this thread. DC is full to the gills with easy, good-paying software work from budgets that need spending. But I don't think that it is a good place to be for your career if you are interested in the technology, unless you are able and willing to get a TSC, and to perform the sort of work that requires one. I recently relocated from the DC…

The tradeoff to that is that DC has a horrible commute and exceptionally high cost of living. How many of these contracts would allow primarily working from home?

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#217
post #106

I'm 60+. I've been coding my whole career and I'm still coding. Never hit a plateau in pay, but nonetheless, I've found the best way to ratchet up is to change jobs which has been sad, but true - I've left some pretty decent jobs because somebody else was willing to pay more. This has been true in every decade of my career. There's been a constant push towards management that I've always resisted. People I've known w…

My favorite reply so far. I'm 37 and am starting to worry. I haven't run into any issues yet. I have noticed though that experience become a liability. If you wrote JavaScript for IE 6, a lot of the optimizations and things one did to make sure things worked in IE 6 are no longer necessary. One should be ready to let go of things as soon as they aren't necessary anymore. Always keep learning and know why you do the t…

Yes. Just keep leveling up, and one day you will be an über-developer that can solve any problem by thinking about it for 2 weeks, then spend an afternoon writing a 100 line bash script.

Sort of. All that experience adds up.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like what I want to be doing. I'm curious if you have additional insight on taking on this path, I want to keep all of my options open and instead of say just pursue embedded/real-time systems and find out that the field is too narrow. What do you recommend to study as opposed to CRUD web-apps, C/C++, ML, data analysis with Python/R or learn more domain specific knowledge such as Bioinformatics or graphics or…

It depends a lot. This is opinion, but I would say that there are three big categories of software development skills. Of course most jobs are a mixture of these. 1. Web development (transport-level and higher networking, HTML/JS/CSS, PHP/Perl/Python/Ruby, using databases, etc.) 2. Enterprise software design (domain modeling, OO programming, system architecture, scaling, security) 3. High performance (algorithms, adv…

The easiest path into a nr 3 job here is to find a job with an engineering product company, ie a company that sells a high-tech product that is not software.

My current job mixes those three categories nicely and I love it :)

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#219
I'm hitting 40 this year. I've been a professional in the tech field for almost 20 years, and a hobbyist for another 5 before that. I am completely self taught. I never took any computer science courses.

I have done pretty well in the field. I eventually focused on data warehousing and business intelligence. I worked for a startup that was recently acquired by a huge company, another startup from early on, and the highlight of my career was working on the Metrics team at Mozilla. I eventually accepted a management position in that team, but after a few years, the stress was getting to me and I missed coding so I switched back to the technical track and I'm doing software architecture at Pentaho, a business intelligence tools company.

I live on the east coast, I work from home full time. I make a good salary. I took a very small drop in pay when I left Mozilla, but it would be tough for many companies to compete with the full scope of life and benefits at Mozilla, and I wasn't unhappy with the change. I am on the upper end of the pay scale, but having been a manager at a couple of different companies, I also know that there is still plenty of room for improvement, even staying on the technical track.

I like @bane's reply, although I feel that personally, there is an important distinction between the middle-management handing hiring, firing, performance reviews, and bureaucratic BS and the director, CTO, VPoE, or team lead where you are doing the abstract work he discusses. Maybe I just got unlucky or I didn't take advantage of the opportunities there though. :)

I would eventually like to move into a principle role, or maybe a director, but I personally have to be careful because I enjoy leading teams but I don't enjoy middle management. :) It is very possible that I might not hit that level because of my self-imposed restrictions.

I attribute my success to a ceasless passion for technology in general. I keep a notebook where I jot down any keywords or tech that I run across or hear mentioned so I can look into it in my spare time. I love diving deep into these technologies and understanding where they can be effectively applied. In most people's books that would make me a generalist, albeit within a specialized field.

I don't pull as many over-nighters as I used to a decade ago. I am more concerned about stopping work in the evening to spend time with my family. That said, I have never felt or acted like a "5:01'er", and I don't believe I would continue to prosper in this field in a way I want if I were to become one.

Re: Ask HN: What happens to older developers?

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Folks keeping score at home should note the successful DC area contractors in this thread. DC is full to the gills with easy, good-paying software work from budgets that need spending. But I don't think that it is a good place to be for your career if you are interested in the technology, unless you are able and willing to get a TSC, and to perform the sort of work that requires one. I recently relocated from the DC…

What is a TSC and how do I get one?

You get a clearance by having your employer or client sponsor you. It inactivates when you switch jobs, but can be reactivated fairly easily within 24 months. Beyond that, you need to be re-investigated. Standard Form 86 [1] lays out the information you need to provide.

[1] https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf86.pdf

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