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Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#211

Post by Arelius »

iav wrote: post #189
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downloaded a personal report from the work number website and found to my horror that my employer was reporting every. single. paystub. gross and net, to equifax. That felt like a huge breach of privacy. Given that equifax had already proven incompetent at keeping my data secure, I immediately sent HR a request to stop sending my supposedly 'confidential' pay info. They politely told me to kick rocks, so I went on…

I am an investor in equifax. Let me clear up a misconception on where the data comes from. Half the data comes from large enterprise customers, who “sell” the data in exchange for Equifax doing I-9 verification for free. The other half comes from 39 payroll companies. Every single payroll company except for Rippling and Gusto sell paystub data to Euifax. (Rippling will start next year). Those are exclusive revenue sh…

Do you have a sense of why, according to you Gusto will remain the only company that doesn't sell payroll data to Equifax?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#212

Post by [deleted] »

hunter2_ wrote: post #200
GTP wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if we're discussing whose data it is the information about how much I pay you , even from a devi's advocate perspective, you can't do better than arguing that this data pertains to both of us. So we should share the property of that data somehow. I don't see how you could argue that that data would be solely the employer's data.

If I administer a survey, collect responses, and put them into a spreadsheet, is the data in that spreadsheet not mine despite the fact that it consists of things that other people told me? I can't share it without the permission of those surveyed, assuming I didn't promise not to?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#213

Post by swampthing »

dan_quixote wrote: post #191
swampthing wrote: post #137

I have to say I am pretty surprised to see the negative sentiments toward Pave and salary benchmarking data in general here. Why is the assumption that salaries would always be lower given this data? It seems just as likely to inform companies that what they had in mind is below market or that they are under-compensating someone in light of market changes.

I think it's a pretty safe assumption that a company paying to gain information that gives them an advantage in negotiation isn't going to freely give up that advantage.

You're assuming that the only reason to pay for Pave is to get a negotiation advantage. My point is that there are other reasons, for example, to make sure that you're not below market.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#214

Post by Kon-Peki »

dsr_ wrote: post #209
iav wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an investor in equifax. Let me clear up a misconception on where the data comes from. Half the data comes from large enterprise customers, who “sell” the data in exchange for Equifax doing I-9 verification for free. The other half comes from 39 payroll companies. Every single payroll company except for Rippling and Gusto sell paystub data to Euifax. (Rippling will start next year). Those are exclusive revenue sh…

You make an excellent argument here for tight regulation of the industry.

… and the usage?

Most highly-paid people have no idea how much privilege this affords them.

You wonder why so many businesses are nice to you? It’s because they’ve already looked you up and know you’ve got a high income and are a millionaire.

Write a personal check for your next automobile? Sure thing, you can drive it off the lot a few minutes later. They won’t even bother cashing the check for a week or two.

Try doing something like that as an hourly worker, even if you’ve got the money in the bank.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#215

Post by mydogcanpurr »

evtothedev wrote: post #183

FWIW, I believe that Pave works to raise engineering salaries. Every company wants to say, "We pay above the 50% mark", thereby steadily raising it over time.

FWIW, I believe RealPage works to lower rent. Every landlord wants to say, “We charge below the 50% mark”, thereby steadily lowering it over time.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#216

Post by keerthiko »

yonran wrote: post #169
jmward01 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They would be illegal if private companies made them. A lot of things governments do would be illegal if private companies did them. Are you arguing that governments shouldn't have special abilities that companies can't have? Should every road be owned by a company? Should the police report to Amazon instead of the local municipality where you may actually have a say in how they are run? We give governments additio…

I’m saying that government regulations that fix prices should be scrutinized and repealed if they reduce opportunity for ordinary people. Such as zoning codes that price out the poor.

I believe the argument here is that the way to do that isn't by establishing a private business that flaunts and undermines those government regulations, but by changing the policies through government process.

Obviously that's easier said than done, and SV has a track record of "ask forgiveness not permission" as a successful tactic for effecting policy change. But many times it results in indefinite undermining of government which leads to selective enforcement and cartels, which is worthy of criticism (of both government and VC-powered undermining of government).

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#218

Post by mcculley »

I found that salary data for some of my employees was being leaked and very accurately reported by a now defunct company called Paysa. We determined that the employees who had their data leaked had recently applied for mortgages and auto loans. Your bank could be selling your data.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#219

Post by willcipriano »

hunter2_ wrote: post #200
GTP wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if we're discussing whose data it is the information about how much I pay you , even from a devi's advocate perspective, you can't do better than arguing that this data pertains to both of us. So we should share the property of that data somehow. I don't see how you could argue that that data would be solely the employer's data.

If I administer a survey, collect responses, and put them into a spreadsheet, is the data in that spreadsheet not mine despite the fact that it consists of things that other people told me? I can't share it without the permission of those surveyed, assuming I didn't promise not to?

Technically sure, but the sort of people who live that way don't get invited out anywhere.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#220

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

atrettel wrote: post #115

I have never heard of Pave before, but this just sounds like yet another copy of Equifax's "The Work Number" [1]. Basically, HR at many companies gives your salary and employment history data to Equifax, who then sells access to the information to certain parties with supposed need to access it, including potential and current employers and creditors. This report is likely one of the most invasive consumer files out…

Pave is a company that has been snapping up other existing companies that performed this kind of aggregation of compensation data. Basically companies look at this benchmarking data to figure out what they should pay for different jobs and levels. Just some extent companies genuinely need this kind of data to figure out what to do. But I also think it breaks supply and demand. Companies are not discovering price of labor but just using each other’s signals to decide what to pay collectively

https://www.pave.com/blog-posts/announcing-paves-series-c-an...

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