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Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

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Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#211

Post by fauigerzigerk »

navane wrote: post #162
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>BUT, if you decide to sell them, you can't just sell them to a specific person over the counter. You'd have to sell on a market so that anyone can potentially buy them and potentially outbid your intended investor. So if I was looking for someone who would build a company with me, someone who would take on an entrepreneurial role, provide expertise, labour or personal connections, I wouldn't be allowed to do that. I…

>>BUT, if you decide to sell them, you can't just sell them to a specific person over the counter. You'd have to sell on a market so that anyone can potentially buy them and potentially outbid your intended investor. >So if I was looking for someone who would build a company with me, someone who would take on an entrepreneurial role, provide expertise, labour or personal connections, I wouldn't be allowed to do that.…

So I would be allowed to give shares away for free. That's progress :)

I still think that this idea is wholly unpragmatic. It would prevent all strategic partnerships where the value provided is only partially financial.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#212

Post by justanother »

He hasn't said a word to me for years, from the moment I rejected his first offer when, after over 15 years together, he finally thought he'd found his Big Exit. I'm fine with how our lawyers finally worked things out, though. Is that bad? Kinda.

But also, that relationship had to go, because in that context, I was always 'less than.' I wasn't the boss, so in every situation I was just someone who 'worked for' him, and was treated accordingly, by customers and staff alike. When strategy was discussed at the big boys' table, I was quietly seated with the other children.

My new venture is mine alone, I'm not 'less than' anyone else, I've taken my place at the head of the table, and it's perfectly clear that I'd been underestimating my potential for a very long time. It's been wildly successful, doing interesting work with high-profile customers. A++ would split again.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#213

Post by stavros »

I joined a friend's startup, it was five academics and me (I have an industry background). There were a few disagreements about the approach, I found the academics didn't have much experience about how to market a product, it led to creating a few products with insufficient feedback, and they failed when released (we couldn't find anyone to buy them, the prospective customers we had talked to and had said "yeah sure sounds like a good idea" were, unsurprisingly, reticent to buy after we'd built it).

There were also disagreements with the CEO, he was a PhD my friend had recruited, and he didn't have any experience with anything but his PhD, which led to my friend and me having to spend tons of time trying to show him how his proposed solutions to problems wouldn't work.

In the end, my friend laid me off 364 days after I was hired, one day before my cliff vested, which is very illegal under Canadian law. I got an attorney and sued them, but the attorney slowly kept ramping the cost up and up, until she told me the entire lawsuit would probably cost around $100k. I doubt their company is worth that much, so I dropped the suit, and have resorted to voodoo instead, which is much cheaper.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#214

Post by brigadier132 »

stavros wrote: post #213

I joined a friend's startup, it was five academics and me (I have an industry background). There were a few disagreements about the approach, I found the academics didn't have much experience about how to market a product, it led to creating a few products with insufficient feedback, and they failed when released (we couldn't find anyone to buy them, the prospective customers we had talked to and had said "yeah sure…

Were all the people that were hired cofounders? Also, why would you need a hired CEO, wouldn't your friend fill that role? The arrangement you all had seems strange.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#215

Post by GandalfTheWhite »

ytdytvhxgydvhh wrote: post #38

Didn’t end up going to work for the friend, but the situation still strained the friendship. An engineer I worked with for several years (and became friends with outside of work) started his own company, a couple of years later he recruited me to join as his business was taking off. He’d also brought in a business guy who seemed to put in lots of processes including a mandatory take-home coding assignment as part of…

I can see your perspective, and it would be reasonable for them to say, "I already know this guy's work. He doesn't have to do the take-home.", which is not like saying, "I already know this guy from [irrelevant source]." I would do this, and have before.

You also could have just smiled and nodded and actually done a good job to demonstrate your skills. It looks to me like you pulled your punches.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#216

Post by donatj »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #163

One of my favorite quotes is attributed to Saint Augustine: "If two friends ask you to judge a dispute, don't accept, because you will lose one friend; on the other hand, if two strangers come with the same request, accept, because you will gain one friend." It sort of applies, here, as well.

Years back a coworker and I were having a small interpersonal disagreement. My supervisor declined to get involved, basically told us to sort it out without wasting work time.

It wasn’t anything serious enough to involve HR (in my eyes anyway), but I spent a solid while annoyed with this response. It took me a solid five years to realize he had made the right overall decision.

He had not played favorites, did not burn any bridges, and caused at worst a mild annoyance to both of us rather than potentially leading one of us to quit.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#217

Post by GandalfTheWhite »

FreakLegion wrote: post #55
ytdytvhxgydvhh wrote: post #38

Didn’t end up going to work for the friend, but the situation still strained the friendship. An engineer I worked with for several years (and became friends with outside of work) started his own company, a couple of years later he recruited me to join as his business was taking off. He’d also brought in a business guy who seemed to put in lots of processes including a mandatory take-home coding assignment as part of…

Separate from whether the process was any good, your friend wasn't necessarily wrong not to make you an exception to it. Nepotism can be pretty rough on a team's morale.

If I was another employee or applicant, I would be legitimately upset if someone didn't have to jump through the same hoops that I did simply because he knew the boss.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#218

Post by WhackyIdeas »

My partner and I started a business and employed a friend of 20 years who struggled getting work, possibly due to him losing his right hand… then he would come into work high out of his mind (or low, as in street bought pain killers)… he was like an alien. So we let him go.

6 months later we gave him another chance after he quit the drugs. But around two years after that, he had car troubles so we gave him a loan of £5K to help buy a car, he would pay towards it regularly and managed to pay around £1K before leaving and never contacting us again. 20 year friendship over and he essentially scammed us for £4K. That was 2021.

Don’t employ friends.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#219

Post by blantonl »

stavros wrote: post #213

I joined a friend's startup, it was five academics and me (I have an industry background). There were a few disagreements about the approach, I found the academics didn't have much experience about how to market a product, it led to creating a few products with insufficient feedback, and they failed when released (we couldn't find anyone to buy them, the prospective customers we had talked to and had said "yeah sure…

Voodoo also just feels better then paying invoices to lawyers.

Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?

#220

Post by blantonl »

catlifeonmars wrote: post #187
xrd wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild that you said that amount because that was exactly the number. I have other friendships that have been tested for similar amounts that have survived. But, it leaves a mark. I had an ex-employee who worked for me under starvation wages in a startup long ago. He was upset about that and some tax implications, and brought it up with me. I gave him a smallish lump sum and enabled him to put a down payment on a…

Wow. $20k seems like a paltry sum to end a friendship over.

I struggle to find any situation where 20k is a paltry sum
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