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Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

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Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#211

Post by chihuahua »

al_borland wrote: post #188
yieldcrv wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before the regulations took effect, candidates with criminal histories were far less likely to be called back, irrespective of race. > After the regulations, lacking the ability to discern criminal history, employers became much less likely to call back any apparently black applicant. They seemed to treat all black applicants now as if they might have a criminal past. “show us your linkedin”

When I was involved in hiring I was told we couldn’t do any online research on potential candidates, like LinkedIn or Facebook, as it might give us information on them being part of a protected class. It’s easier to justify not picking someone based on merit when there is no knowledge of those things.

When I was looking for a job a few months ago, every single application required answering multiple questions about whether I'm Hispanic, and if not, which race I am. Additionally, some employers demand to know my sexual identity AND orientation, which I consider ludicrous and obscene. "Before we can consider your application, we must know who you like to have sex with!"

Ostensibly this is for some kind of reporting and statistics, but I feel bad while answering it every time (about 100+ times last year) and wonder if checking the box that says "prefer not to say" automatically disqualifies me.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#212

Post by xyst »

I vaguely recall an episode of “Dark Diaries” which was supposedly the guy behind “d3f4ult” as part of some activist hacking group. Dude was convicted of computer hacking crimes and sent to a federal penitentiary.

I believe he ended up being a security consultant or something. So it’s possible.

I think you might find work with smaller companies. HR at most big company will often deny, ignore or ghost you once they pull the background check. Maybe they will look the other way? But likely need to know a few hiring managers that would take the risk of hiring a convicted felon.

Personally, I do know having a felony on record will exclude you from any financial related firms. But honestly, you are not missing out.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#213

Post by User23 »

sneak wrote: post #205
kypro wrote: post #147

I know this is a controversial view, but I think employers should not be allowed to run background checks unless important for the role (government work, access to children, etc) and where it is important for the role it should only return the criminal convictions that might be relevant to the role. If you were arrested for robbery when you were younger perhaps because you had a drug addiction then that person should…

I think crimes of violence are relevant to any/all roles. I don’t want to hire or work with anyone who has ever at any point in their life used violence to attempt to solve problems. I am fine with a percentage of human beings being blacklisted permanently from access to much of society. Violence has no place in our world. I won’t even hire former cops. It is, unfortunately, illegal in the US to explicitly avoid hiri…

Those people who lawfully risk violence to serve the public are why you get to have your fantasy that a world without violence is possible.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#214

Post by NegativeLatency »

300bps wrote: post #196
kypro wrote: post #147

I know this is a controversial view, but I think employers should not be allowed to run background checks unless important for the role (government work, access to children, etc) and where it is important for the role it should only return the criminal convictions that might be relevant to the role. If you were arrested for robbery when you were younger perhaps because you had a drug addiction then that person should…

An assault charge is likely relevant for most positions. If I hire a convicted felon with a track record of assault and they end up assaulting another employee or customer, I’d feel responsible. The victim would probably hold me legally responsible. I’d feel more comfortable hiring someone with a 100% track record of never having been convicted of assault. If you disagree, is there any number of assault convictions t…

I think it really depends. Someone who had an a assault conviction at say 18 and is now 40, is a different situation from someone who very recently assaulted someone (but also how could you expect someone to change if they're never given a chance).

There's also the negative case of someone who has assaulted someone but was never caught, you can't safely eliminate that because there's no record of it.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#215

Post by jstarfish »

Exoristos wrote: post #172
jstarfish wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ps some states have laws against asking if you're a felon. Cali and Colo might be If you've been convicted of anything in the last 10-15 years, every script-kiddie docket scraper will attribute the conviction to you. This is only useful to people willing/able to compartmentalize their past under a deadname. Then applicants can mislead the employer into running background checks on a synthetic identity that comes ba…

When I changed my name, the court required extensive proof I had no convictions, no major debts, etc. etc. This was quite a while ago. Are you saying requirements have been loosened?

Great question. No changes to requirements that I'm aware of when legally changing your name, but that's not the step I'm talking about...the exploitable mechanic here is in socially-engineering the hiring manager.

Two approaches:

The more confusing you make the results of your background check, the less apparent relevance the criminal conviction for Jimmy Deere will have for Jane Doe. The hiring manager isn't the county clerk or a private investigator. He doesn't have time to unfuck your fuckary.

So when changing your name, pick one from the local obituaries or the name of a former resident of your home. Even better is if you share a name with another known criminal. Your background check will "erroneously" include information about a random dude named Jimmy with a criminal conviction, suggest you are currently incarcerated for manslaughter and DUI, and that you died last year at age 89, but you also died a decade ago at 72. With any luck, he'll distrust the results enough to hire you.

The other course I've seen is the squeaky-clean route. Adopt the name of an overseas CEO who works in the same industry you do. Then act like an expert in that field without ever explicitly claiming to be that person. It sounds insane. It fucking works. Any negative data will be glossed over by all the positive sentiment associated with your "victim." (Just don't attend the same trade shows!)

The yarn-graphing I had to do to disambiguate one individual's skinwalked identities had my colleagues calling me Pepe Silvia for months. The guy was using disparate sets of foreign-and-domestically-issued papers to establish toy companies all over the place and at one point "adopted" the identity and address of his onetime AirBNB host, who himself was a retired industry executive. It was the wildest case I've ever worked.

Synthetic identity fraud: fun for everyone!

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#216

Post by RickJWagner »

sneak wrote: post #205
kypro wrote: post #147

I know this is a controversial view, but I think employers should not be allowed to run background checks unless important for the role (government work, access to children, etc) and where it is important for the role it should only return the criminal convictions that might be relevant to the role. If you were arrested for robbery when you were younger perhaps because you had a drug addiction then that person should…

I think crimes of violence are relevant to any/all roles. I don’t want to hire or work with anyone who has ever at any point in their life used violence to attempt to solve problems. I am fine with a percentage of human beings being blacklisted permanently from access to much of society. Violence has no place in our world. I won’t even hire former cops. It is, unfortunately, illegal in the US to explicitly avoid hiri…

That's crazy. Cops prevent violence. Remember when a few cities tried having 'police free zones'? I think it was Portland that had murders within a week.

Better re-think that one.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#217

Post by bombcar »

chihuahua wrote: post #211
al_borland wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was involved in hiring I was told we couldn’t do any online research on potential candidates, like LinkedIn or Facebook, as it might give us information on them being part of a protected class. It’s easier to justify not picking someone based on merit when there is no knowledge of those things.

When I was looking for a job a few months ago, every single application required answering multiple questions about whether I'm Hispanic, and if not, which race I am. Additionally, some employers demand to know my sexual identity AND orientation, which I consider ludicrous and obscene. "Before we can consider your application, we must know who you like to have sex with!" Ostensibly this is for some kind of reporting…

I feel a concentrated program to always check “do not say” would be powerfully useful. There’s no way it doesn’t get seen/noticed. Proof: next time check a box that obviously doesn’t apply and watch if they notice.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#218

Post by bombcar »

technick wrote: post #202
kypro wrote: post #147

I know this is a controversial view, but I think employers should not be allowed to run background checks unless important for the role (government work, access to children, etc) and where it is important for the role it should only return the criminal convictions that might be relevant to the role. If you were arrested for robbery when you were younger perhaps because you had a drug addiction then that person should…

I'm mostly on board with your proposal as I've seen a felony speeding conviction stop a friend from getting tech jobs over 5 years after it happened. His situation would have been totally different if he was caught 2 weeks before, it wouldn't have been a felony but the state arbitrarily changed the law. He didn't wreck, cause a wreck, or wasn't participating in street racing.

In a case like that it may be worth the cost of the legal fight to get it expunged.

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#219

Post by bombcar »

hluska wrote: post #169
gwbas1c wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [edit: after reading felonintexas let me update this. If someone point blank asks, tell them. Don’t volunteer this information. There is nothing to be gained] My Fraternity's cook, when I was in college, was a former fellon. He worked for us for a few years before he told me about his background. I don't remember the details, but we had a conversation where he mentioned he had experience in IT. Eventually he very b…

Why did you let the conversation drift around to “if you were making big bucks why are you cooking for us now”? That’s a remarkably rude thing to ask for absolutely no reason other than ego.

If you were talking with a friend, and you learned he used to make millions on Wall Street, you’d not even think of considering asking why he gave it up?

Re: Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?

#220

Post by bombcar »

jcims wrote: post #171
jph wrote: post #158

I worked at 70 Million Jobs (YC) to help people with records get jobs. Here's my advice FWIW. Your experience in security operations is in demand, so that's a big plus for you. Seek work that you can do via external environments, meaning you don't need to be on-site, and don't need to have internal access. Ideally you can create an LLC so you can work for yourself. A few examples... 1. Doing compliance-oriented secur…

Was going to suggest looking into an LLC. I ran a security consulting company for about ten years and the only customers that asked for background checks were banks and some federal agencies.

And there are even some customers that’ll happily pay a bit more when they learn you’ve been roughed and tumbled.
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