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Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

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Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#211

Post by ghaff »

gfodor wrote: post #204
twobitshifter wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that’s the plan, Google is well ahead of Facebook for recreating presence with their starline demo. That gives you body language eye contact etc without the big headset and paddles - and you’re still able to interact with your real world environment.

I agree I’ve been working in and out of VR for the last 8 years or so and it was the first thing I saw that made me question the assumption that VR was the only possible solution to this problem.

As someone who spends way too much time on video--including meetings I should be in in case something directly relevant to me comes up but mostly can pay partial attention to while I do stuff on another computer--I would mostly hate the idea of wearing a headset. Heck, at in person meetings for better or worse, a lot of people do the same thing.

High-fidelity, lifesize, no stuttering, etc. plus collaborative docs and I'm pretty sure you may have a better experience than VR.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#212

Post by ph4 »

L_226 wrote: post #194

Personally I think the "metaverse" will not be a thing until climate change makes going outside impossible or at least extremely uncomfortable for a large percentage of the global population. Covid did increase teleconferencing software usage (Meet, Zoom etc) - but I think that work-related (i.e. forcible) usages can only go so far. Online education solutions were lacking this time around, but I think next time there…

Man if we ever get to this point I'll just kill myself.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#213

Post by gfodor »

psychlops wrote: post #198
gfodor wrote: post #146

It’s simple really, and most commenters don’t “get” what is going on with all this. Remote communication tools like video conferencing fail to deliver what academics call “social presence”, which is the feeling of being together in unmediated communication. VR and AR have the necessary capabilities to do so, and deliver social presence on par with face to face. With a fully immersive experience, you can feel like you…

I have a feeling that part of social presence will require absolute privacy among participants. Once we see permanently recorded leaks of these social conversations, there will be a halt of adoption.

Yep this is part of the goals of one of the projects I worked on, Mozilla Hubs: ensuring that there is always a self hosted privacy preserving open source option for this basic use case of VR avatar based communication.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#214

Post by gfodor »

abeppu wrote: post #196
charlesju wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same way you can't just print out a copy of the mona lisa? People care about status and authenticity. Imagine a virtual world where 1. You have the validate you are an avatar you own 2. You can be anything you want The virtual world 1 is way more interesting because it's authentic and the people of status will want to use it and people of less status will build towards being higher status.

Who arbitrates which NFTs-based claims are respected versus not? How does one decide authenticity? And once you have an answer to such a question (relying on some preexisting system of ownership in the real world), then why should we care about tokens? E.g. if someone _does_ try to create an NFT for the Mona Lisa, our ability to refute / accept its authenticity is premised on the knowledge that in the real world, the…

The people who decide which NFTs matter are the communities and cultures you participate in, and entities who have sovereignty over you. Which is no different than anything else.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#215

Post by TillE »

abeppu wrote: post #196
charlesju wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same way you can't just print out a copy of the mona lisa? People care about status and authenticity. Imagine a virtual world where 1. You have the validate you are an avatar you own 2. You can be anything you want The virtual world 1 is way more interesting because it's authentic and the people of status will want to use it and people of less status will build towards being higher status.

Who arbitrates which NFTs-based claims are respected versus not? How does one decide authenticity? And once you have an answer to such a question (relying on some preexisting system of ownership in the real world), then why should we care about tokens? E.g. if someone _does_ try to create an NFT for the Mona Lisa, our ability to refute / accept its authenticity is premised on the knowledge that in the real world, the…

Right, it's just shoving some arbitrary data in a decentralized database. People will still need to get together and agree on which bits of data to care about, and at that point the blockchain is adding very little value besides a cumbersome way to transfer ownership.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#216

Post by gfodor »

ghaff wrote: post #211
gfodor wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree I’ve been working in and out of VR for the last 8 years or so and it was the first thing I saw that made me question the assumption that VR was the only possible solution to this problem.

As someone who spends way too much time on video--including meetings I should be in in case something directly relevant to me comes up but mostly can pay partial attention to while I do stuff on another computer--I would mostly hate the idea of wearing a headset. Heck, at in person meetings for better or worse, a lot of people do the same thing. High-fidelity, lifesize, no stuttering, etc. plus collaborative docs and…

Yeah the headsets are a distraction, the way to think about this is there are three distinct tech tracks:

- full photonic override (HMDs -> passthrough visors (lynx-r is a half step) -> passthrough swim goggles -> contact lenses)

- partial photonic override (HoloLens -> AR glasses -> contact lenses)

- magic windows (google’s thing)

They all have trade offs but the first track in particular it is an error to look at current form factors as a fixed condition. They will be changing rapidly insofar as traction and/or investment continues.

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#217

Post by freewilly1040 »

polote wrote: post #126
brundolf wrote: post #54

My question with the metaverse concept is always, "Why? What's the point?" I can think of two parties that have their own answers: 1) A certain group of people who like computers and grew up reading sci-fi think it would be cool; some even tell themselves it's very important, but for vague reasons that they can't really articulate 2) Centers of capital are interested in it as yet another platform for consumption, att…

The only thing that counts when you create a B2C product is how much time each user will spend time on your product per day. There is no goal to achieve for the user. Zuck is a very smart guy and knows that Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Tiktok, Twitter, Youtube ... are activities for people. And those activities will keep being popular only a handful of years. If you don't want the Meta Inc, company's revenue to col…

The value to Mark Zuckerberg is obvious, the question is what’s the value to users? Why is it fun? Why is it interesting?

Re: Ask HN: How is the “metaverse” concept different from the Second Life boom?

#220

Post by ghaff »

gfodor wrote: post #216
ghaff wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who spends way too much time on video--including meetings I should be in in case something directly relevant to me comes up but mostly can pay partial attention to while I do stuff on another computer--I would mostly hate the idea of wearing a headset. Heck, at in person meetings for better or worse, a lot of people do the same thing. High-fidelity, lifesize, no stuttering, etc. plus collaborative docs and…

Yeah the headsets are a distraction, the way to think about this is there are three distinct tech tracks: - full photonic override (HMDs -> passthrough visors (lynx-r is a half step) -> passthrough swim goggles -> contact lenses) - partial photonic override (HoloLens -> AR glasses -> contact lenses) - magic windows (google’s thing) They all have trade offs but the first track in particular it is an error to look at c…

Certainly. Though I'd be inclined to argue that full VR/immersion is mostly of interest in an exploration context (e.g. 3D construction walk through, virtual tourism) or simulation (including gaming)--especially for situations where you can participate from a fixed location.
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