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Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

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Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#211

Post by [deleted] »

gatherhunterer wrote: post #146
fightme wrote: post #101

CS PhD from Stanford in dynamic program analysis. Lost all my friends. Ghosted by companies for jobs directly related to my research. Everyone I knew who went directly into industry is doing way better than me. My salary has only tracked inflation. I sorely regret the decision and consider it to have fundamentally ruined my life beyond repair.

Imagine telling any of the thousands of homeless people in the Bay Area that a Stanford PhD program “ruined my life beyond repair”. Maybe it is a lack of general life experience that is holding you back.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#212

Post by seph-reed »

wenc wrote: post #193
seph-reed wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally believe it. Debt sucks. Being smart (passed a certain point) sucks. Plus, think of the lock-in, losing friends, etc. Basically, he sold his soul, and I don't blame him for thinking he's not going to get it back.

There's typically no debt doing a STEM (Science, Tech, Engineering and Math) Ph.D. in most places, unless you're talking about undergrad debt. STEM Ph.D.s are like jobs. You get paid a stipend (the financial package typically requires you to work as a TA/RA). A few data points. My Ph.D. program paid me $30k/yr tax free over 4 years. Prestige scholarship holders were able to get even more, maybe $45k-50k. (my numbers…

I did not know that debt was a mitigated issue for Ph.D's. Thank you for informing me.

If that's the case, and he can literally just light his diploma on fire and walk out into the world without any huge burdens (like debts), then it does seem strange to say it ruined his life.

Perhaps he let someone go who he really adored and is being romantic. Or maybe he thinks he has to keep following this path.. but if he's free to start over, there's no need to worry about the old ruined life anymore.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#213

Post by fancyfredbot »

I studied for and completed a PhD. I am quite sure it has opened doors for me, allowing me to access more interesting/enjoyable and arguably better paid work. I'm glad I did it.

However, based on what you say I would not recommend you do the same. If you hate the process you may not finish - it's a long and at times demoralising journey, even if you normally enjoy the process. If you don't like reading papers then you may not enjoy the jobs you'll get when you graduate. There are probably better ways to get interesting jobs, for example with an early stage start-up which can't afford to hire someone with a top PhD.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#214

Post by SkyPuncher »

cujo wrote: post #192
SkyPuncher wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard it anecdotally time and time again, "Overqualified". Specialization only pays more when there's demand for the exact specialization. Nobody wants to pay a PhD and risk them moving onto the "perfect" position when the same job can be done by somebody more generalized.

Couldn't OP just not list that on the resume/application? This seems like a solvable problem if it's as bad as they make it out.

This is the solution.

I once worked with a guy that had a law degree. He never listed that law degree when applying to software engineering jobs. People figured he'd just go back to law, even though he hated practicing law.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#215

Post by jcpsimmons »

PhD in Multimedia Art here. I transitioned during the degree into web dev. While I don't regret getting the PhD I wouldn't recommend the process to anyone. Funding is lean so you'll be taking a vow of poverty for 4-6 years. On top of that, even with your assistantships, you'll be constantly pestered to do additional, uncompensated work. In addition to this, something about the scarcity of funding, and uncertain future of academia in general seems to bring out the worst in people. I noticed an unusually high concentration of narcissists in my own department (maybe varies by degree).

Paradoxically it made the job hunt hard, even though I had a good deal of part time web dev job experience going into my full-time hunt, those three letters after my name seemed to turn people off so much that I had much better luck leaving the PhD off of my resume and mentioning it later on in the interview process once I had gotten my foot in the door.

My first job after leaving, I am making a higher salary than 4/5 of my committee members made last year (public university/public salaries). No regrets but wouldn't recommend to anyone. It's a severe amount of stress.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#216

Post by throwaway23649 »

cujo wrote: post #113
fightme wrote: post #101

CS PhD from Stanford in dynamic program analysis. Lost all my friends. Ghosted by companies for jobs directly related to my research. Everyone I knew who went directly into industry is doing way better than me. My salary has only tracked inflation. I sorely regret the decision and consider it to have fundamentally ruined my life beyond repair.

> Ghosted by companies for jobs directly related to my research This is unexpected. What's going on there?

MIT PhD. This is currently happening to me at the moment. From what my old labmates tell me, it is par for the course.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#217

Post by sjg007 »

dehrmann wrote: post #210
sjg007 wrote: post #207

If you want to spend your day working on theorem proving then get a PhD. If not, don't. You may also find another PhD subject you may like more. A PhD opens different doors even though you may still arrive at the same destination. If you are paralyzed in making a decision, you might want to start the PhD and do a summer internships at various companies. Use internships as a way to evaluate a "regular" jobs. BTW this…

A PhD also closes some doors because the roles you apply for will tend to be more specialized. Or maybe that's not the direction you want to go, and you have to explain in every HR phone screen for five years "no, I actually want to do x." In general, the jobs you get if you have a PhD pay somewhat better, but there's fewer of them, and have less flexibility with who you work for and where.

Eh you can leave it off your resume if you want.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#218

Post by ariosto »

rubicon33 wrote: post #189
gwbas1c wrote: post #183

I got my BS in CS 16 years ago. I always thought I'd go back for a PhD, but every time I started looking, I quickly lost interest. (I don't think I'll ever get one.) But, here's the important quote: > After I acquire my PhD, I surmise that I would go to industry. Go into industry first. Why do I say this? I've been involved in hiring for about 8 years, and I've only seen a very small amount of candidates with PhDs. (…

> Industry mostly does software engineering I would extend this thinking even further... Most industry jobs aren't even practicing "Software Engineering". Algorithms, data structures, discrete math... that's totally outside of the day to day work for most "Software Engineers" If you're building an app (web, mobile, desktop) it's largely plugging pieces together nowadays. You're likely using libraries that were built…

What do you think a Civil, Mechanical, Industrial engineer does? Do you think a Civil Engineer is going around re-working how buildings are designed?

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#219

Post by rubicon33 »

mceachen wrote: post #195
rubicon33 wrote: post #190

> I'm afraid I won't be able to find interesting work with just a MSc, and I'm really afraid of getting a boring software engineering gig. This is probably true. Most jobs you'll get with a BS+Msc are going to be app development. Web, mobile, server... pick your flavor. You'll largely be using tools developed by other people, to build applications. The really interesting jobs are absolutely held by Phds. But that's n…

> The really interesting jobs are absolutely held by Phds. That wholly depends on your definition of interesting. I don't have a PhD. I've written software that taught literacy to kids, helped people pay their bills online (back in 1999, when this was novel), written full ML systems (15 years ago, before the advent of open source ml packages), co-founded a YC company, and now I'm helping people rediscover the images…

> That wholly depends on your definition of interesting.

Of course it does... I'm just making an assumption (possibly wrong), that if you're the type who's in an MS program, wondering if you'll be bored without a PHD, then yes, most industry jobs will bore you. After all, why are you in an MS program seriously considering a PHD. There's gotta be an intellectual curiosity there beyond just moving data around.

At the end of the day, 90% of industry app development is CRUD (Create, Replace, Update, Delete) work on data. The really interesting problems (from an intellectual perspective) are either in research positions, or, at the elite positions within company pet projects like Google Brain, for example.

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