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Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

#211

Post by piracykills »

zinckiwi wrote: post #5

I'm familiar with this. There's no magic solution, sadly, but I'll share one thing that has helped me and may apply at least to some of your situations. I realised a while ago that my main issue was with nebulous tasks -- that is, the more concrete, defined, and _meetable_ a task was, the less trouble I had with it. So I started to break down large tasks, which never got started much less finished, into smaller ones,…

Yes - I basically use indented lists of tasks like this for everything. Indented because often times you realize you didn't quite break that down enough and need more steps underneath it for them to be approachable.

Lots of tools are great for this too, I've used Tomboy, OneNote and org-mode, all of which do this very well.

Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

#212

Post by chb »

tigerwash wrote: post #75
zinckiwi wrote: post #5

I'm familiar with this. There's no magic solution, sadly, but I'll share one thing that has helped me and may apply at least to some of your situations. I realised a while ago that my main issue was with nebulous tasks -- that is, the more concrete, defined, and _meetable_ a task was, the less trouble I had with it. So I started to break down large tasks, which never got started much less finished, into smaller ones,…

Problem Slicing is the key; Kent Beck wrote an article about "Master Programming" and I'd like to take his advice whenever I encounter a problem in programming, but also in real life (e.g. coordinating tasks in work or private life): https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/4n3s7c/kent_be... > Slicing. Take a big project, cut it into thin slices, and rearrange the slices to suit your context. I can always slice…

What do you know about the author, Kent Beck?

Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

#213

Post by sethammons »

I do well with a version of the Rule of 3.

I set 3 larger goals for a day, and I tend to break each up into 3 smaller goals that help me get to each. This can scale up to goals that are larger or take longer.

My main point is to use milestones. I set a schedule with milestones that should help me reach goals on time. The sooner I feel behind, the sooner I push through my procrastination.

Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

#214

Post by teekert »

You mention playing video games as a rewards and I immediately wonder: how much of your problem is the fact that video games made you get used to fast and easy rewards? How much did you desensitize your innate reward system by video games? I'm probably going to get down voted for this remark but I encourage every gamer feeling the urge to down vote to take a critical look at themselves before doing so, be honest, my interest in this is also honest. In the digital world nowadays many things are optimized for fast rewards, real life is not.

Gamers often tell me "it's just for relaxation" but often I feel that the time invested by them in games makes it more like a lifestyle.

That said, a tip would be: What do you like about work? What are the things that do motivate you? Try to make a list and try the make the items on said list as big a part of your day and tasks as possible.

Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

#215

Post by Denzel »

orblivion wrote: post #201
endymi0n wrote: post #59

I can relate a lot. I'm still burning through self-motivation hacks at 35, some of which are helping while most don't. Eventually, the hack with by far the largest impact (which brought me to currently being cofounder and CTO of one of the more successful German startups) was realizing that while I simply suck at self-motivating, I never had a problem getting stuff done when working for others. I effortlessly produce…

So here's a question - what if I am of this disposition but I have a lot of ideas? And I would not be satisfied with life unless I'm pursuing them? Is there a way to reach out to find people to be in charge of me to execute on my ideas? Does anybody want to do that? (These are not necessarily businesses)

Take this with a heavy grain of salt. It's an idea I've had -- even though I don't have motivation problems -- that I have yet to do. (I plan to within the next three months.)

Hire a part-time project manager.

A good project manager is immensely helpful in (1) teasing out and decoupling requirements, (2) producing a work-breakdown structure (WBS), (3) setting a schedule/timeline for execution, (4) assessing risks, and finally (5) controlling activity and adherence to the schedule.

These are all activities that suck to do alone. A project manager offers a useful organizer and controller. Basically, they represent a forcing function.

Just like personal trainers help unmotivated people stay in-shape, I think a personal part-time project manager would help you follow through on your projects.

Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

#216

Post by endymi0n »

orblivion wrote: post #201
endymi0n wrote: post #59

I can relate a lot. I'm still burning through self-motivation hacks at 35, some of which are helping while most don't. Eventually, the hack with by far the largest impact (which brought me to currently being cofounder and CTO of one of the more successful German startups) was realizing that while I simply suck at self-motivating, I never had a problem getting stuff done when working for others. I effortlessly produce…

So here's a question - what if I am of this disposition but I have a lot of ideas? And I would not be satisfied with life unless I'm pursuing them? Is there a way to reach out to find people to be in charge of me to execute on my ideas? Does anybody want to do that? (These are not necessarily businesses)

TBH I've been thinking long and hard about that issue since I still have lots of interesting plans, and for the next step in my career (which is probably still a few years away), I already decided I'll do what it takes to find someone who's aligned with me on that very topic and can fill the role for shares and cash.

I think it's a little weird but workable, I have at one time worked with someone who had a quite similar disposition (he was more of a product and sales guy) and he literally hired a managing director for his newly founded company so he could do the stuff he was best at — on the topic he chose himself, in the company he founded himself.

Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

#217

Post by aaronm14 »

jseutter wrote: post #174
arconis987 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This approach is immensely helpful to me as well. Started practicing problem slicing after watching a lecture from Don Knuth. He started by writing down a problem and underlining it. He then solved small bits of it and worked through many examples that seemed almost trivial. Eventually, some amazing results began to emerge after the many trivial examples were worked through. Impressed on me the power of breaking a la…

Do you have a link or title to the video? I'm interested in watching it, but searching isn't turning up likely matches.

I'm also curious to see this. I think a lot of the really strong programmers I know do this instinctually where as I have to be more deliberate breaking things down. Perhaps some of it is that they are able more more naturally hold it in their minds than writing it out on a piece of paper like I do. Maybe they "learned how to learn" in that way better than I did when they were younger.

Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

#218

Post by qxzw »

534b44a wrote: post #149
qxzw wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried medication? For me personally it's even worse when working for others. Even went to the therapist, but she said they don't prescribe stuff like Adderall (don't even have it), and solution is just therapy in form of talking, which had zero effect (she asked questions I asked myself when I was 15). Really curious about Adderall.

I certainly don't mind being an average 1x programmer, if I don't have to take drugs to better my performance. I don't like coffee, nor alcohol, and I never put any smoke in my mouth. When my diet is OK and my body gets the required exercise, the mind works best.

I tried all variations on the theme - different sleep patterns (getting up early at fixed time, waking naturally), diets (low carb, no processed food with excess sugar etc etc, workouts (running, working with weights), no coffee, just 1 cup of coffee, max 2-3 cups of coffee... sadly without significant effect. What I also notice that my lack of focus is not tied just to productivity - I can't even finish Lord of the Rings movie in one sitting, and I LOVE it.

Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

#219

Post by qxzw »

ams6110 wrote: post #144
qxzw wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried medication? For me personally it's even worse when working for others. Even went to the therapist, but she said they don't prescribe stuff like Adderall (don't even have it), and solution is just therapy in form of talking, which had zero effect (she asked questions I asked myself when I was 15). Really curious about Adderall.

Your therapist should be able to refer you to an MD for meds, if she thinks that would help.

Trouble is there are no amphetamines as meds in my backwards country.

Re: Ask HN: Is it 'normal' to struggle so hard with work?

#220

Post by themodelplumber »

Are you one of the "theorist" NT personality types? It's very common for such intuitive thinkers to get into these kind of traps. Day-to-day task management and productivity (especially detail work) become significant stressors. The best answer I've found is rebalancing in favor of thinking-as-job and doing more consulting, planning, teaching, and less making or doing. Then the making or doing can develop on its own in e.g. hobby time.

It's just another mental model or lens through which to view the human system, but I find it useful. Last I checked the majority of HN were intuitive theory-types. Good luck.

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