Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's because they fall under the "engineers" category like my local postman and Michael Schumacher both fall under the "driver" category. Most people don't work on anything technically hard, most problems are business logic issues that aren't solved technically or legacy code workarounds for which you need to put 3-10 domain experts in a room for a few hours to solve.
Completely agree. If anything LLMs have just made this completely transparent and are revealing that actual engineering in software is limited to rare cases. All of theses middling developers who are so excited about these tools don't seem to realize that they are perfectly primed to eventually eliminate precisely the kind of worker responsible for hooking up existing APIs for solved problems into a web app, the kind…
Ask HN: Anyone struggling to get value out of coding LLMs?
201–210 of 293 posts
Re: Ask HN: Anyone struggling to get value out of coding LLMs?
#202There are two kinds of engineers. Those who can’t stop raving about how much of a superpower LLMs are for coding, how it’s made them 100x more productive, and is unlocking things they could’ve never done before. And those who, like you, find it to be an extremely finicky process that requires extreme amount of coddling to get average results at best. The only thing I don’t understand is why people from the former gro…
I think it'll calm down a bit. People are just making huge claims right now which is music to the ears of many.
I like the tools don't get me wrong, but they aren't going to make a huge difference day to day. The area they will make a huge difference is in helping people work out issues faster. You know those multi-hour or multi-day issues you run into where you go crazy reading and re-reading the code. The LLMs are good at giving you a fresh look at the code that you'd otherwise need to get more people to help with or go sleep on it for a day.
This time savings here is probably the most significant time savings AI code editors or agents will ever provide.
Re: Ask HN: Anyone struggling to get value out of coding LLMs?
#203I just had an llm build the my side business’s website and full client portal. About 15k loc. It’s amazing. Better design in terms of UI / UX than I could have fathomed and so much more. There’s a lot of duplicated code that I’ll clean up, but the site functions and will be launched for clients to start using soon. For my day job, it’s also helping me build out the software at a faster pace than before and is an amaz…
Also as I understand one the main problem with LLM right now is trying to apply some surgical changes to large enough code base or adding some extra functionality without breaking/altering existing ones, have you faces issues with that?
Another issue is security, I've heard some horror stories of non-tech people developing web solutions to later find them destroyed by hackers because they didn't know were to look to find holes in their design.
Re: Ask HN: Anyone struggling to get value out of coding LLMs?
#204Getting the best possible results requires: - an LLM trained to have the "features" (in the ML/DL sense of the word) required to follow instructions to complete your task - an application that manages the context window of the LLM - strategically stuffing the context window with preferences/conventions, design information, documentation, examples, your git repo's repo map, and make sure you actually use rules and conventions files for projects. Do not assume the LLM will be able to retrieve or conjure up all of that for you. Treat it like a junior dev and lead it down the path you want it to take. It is true, there is a bit of micromanagement required but Aider makes that very very simple to do. Aider even makes it possible to scrape a docs page to markdown for use by the LLM. Hooking up an LLM to search is a great way to stuff the context window BTW, makes things much simpler. You can use the Perplexity API with Aider and quickly write project plans and fetch necessary docs quickly this way; just turn that into markdown files you'll load up later after you switch models to a proper code gen model. Assume that you may end up editing some code yourself, Aider makes launching your editor easy though.
This mostly just works. For fun the first thing I did with Aider was to write a TUI chat interface for ollama and I had something I could post to github in about an hour or two.
I really think Aider is the missing ingredient for most people. I have used it to generate documentation for projects I wrote by hand, I have used it to generate code (in one of my choice languages) for projects written in a language I didn't like. It's my new favorite video game.
Join the Aider discord, read the docs, and start using it with Gemini and Sonnet. If you want local, there's more to that than what I'm willing to type in a comment here but long story short you also need to make a series of correct decisions to get good results from local but I do it on my RTX4090 just fine.
I am not a contributor or author of Aider, I'm just a fanatical user and devotee to its way of doing things.
Re: Ask HN: Anyone struggling to get value out of coding LLMs?
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
As long as it's a simple enough problem and it works, I'm happy. The other day I needed to do something in powershell, which I probably use twice a year. But an LLM was just able to spit out what I needed for me. I find it's the best for that but once things get complicated, you're just arguing with the LLM, when you should have done it yourself.
I'm pretty sure I've commented this before, but it's just too ridiculous not to share again. About a year ago I needed to convert ~25k png images to webp. I happened to have them on a Windows machine, and I don't know powershell at all. I figured this would be a good thing for AI to so I asked the free version of chatGPT to write me a script to do the conversion. I was expecting a one-liner script, since I know this…
https://imagemagick.org/script/command-line-tools.php
The "solution" stated is hilarious.
Re: Ask HN: Anyone struggling to get value out of coding LLMs?
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I find LLMs very useful when I need to learn something new, e.g. a new library or API, or a new language. It is much faster to just ask the LLM how to render text in OpenGL, or whatever, than read through tons of terrible documentation. LLMs are better at reading terrible documentation than the average programmer. So in that sense, "obscure text reading and explain it better" there seems to be a clear value add. >…
> LLMs are better at reading terrible documentation than the average programmer. LLMs don't go and read the terrible documentation for you when prompted. They reproduce the information posted by other people that struggled with said terrible documentation, if it was posted somewhere. It's still better than a modern web search or struggling with the terrible documentation on your own - for introductory stuff. For goin…
Re: Ask HN: Anyone struggling to get value out of coding LLMs?
#207There's no silver bullet. It is amazing how in our field we repeatedly forget this simple advice from Fred Brooks. In my experience, LLMs are way more useful for coding and less problem-prone when you use them without exaggerated expectations and understand that it was trained on buggy code, and that of course it is going to generate buggy code. Because almost all code is buggy. Don't delegate design for it, use func…
Re: Ask HN: Anyone struggling to get value out of coding LLMs?
#208It's easy to get good productivity out of LLMs in complex apps, here are my tips: Create a directory in the root of your project called /specs Chat with a LLM to drill into ideas having it play the role of a Startup Advisor, work through problem definitions, what your approach is, and build a high level plan. If you are happy with the state of your direction, ask the LLM to build a product-strategy.md file with the s…
Re: Ask HN: Anyone struggling to get value out of coding LLMs?
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not sure that LLM makes it easier to do. Pain points I’ve seen: 1. You have to remember all the technologies you need included, my company template already has them. 2. LLM doesn’t have a standardized directory structure, so you end up with different projects having different structures and file naming conventions. This makes later refactoring or upgrades across multiple projects less automatable (sometimes this…
I agree, initial comment was basically that, and seeing a lot of folks (especially those with debatable technical skills) being very impressed with LLMs for boilerplate generation, e.g. "I build a WHOLE APP", etc.
Re: Ask HN: Anyone struggling to get value out of coding LLMs?
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really my case. Found that Codebase with good code benefit more with LLM, but it's not the prerequisite. I just rewrote 300ish advanced PostgreSQL queries to mysql queries. The process is not magical, but it will take me 1 week rather than 3 days. Now I'm on testing phase, seems promising. The point is if we can find a work to work along with the agent, can be very productive.
> I just rewrote 300ish advanced PostgreSQL queries to mysql queries. Translation from one set of tokens to another is exactly the primary use case of LLMs. This is exactly what it should be good at. Developing new queries, much less so. Translation from one set of database queries to another was already very well defined and well covered before LLMs came about.