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Ask HN: Former devs who can't get a job, what did you end up doing for work?
201–210 of 301 posts
Re: Ask HN: Former devs who can't get a job, what did you end up doing for work?
#202> I'm curious what other kinds of work other former developers got into and if they like it. Speaking in general terms, age discrimination in tech (not just software development) is, in my opinion, a really serious problem. It's like society discards you after a certain point in time, even though you are likely more capable than most younger candidates. I am going to point the finger squarely at YC on some of this, s…
While I agree age discrimination in tech is a huge problem, it’s hardly true that it hasn’t received attention. Age discrimination has been one of the few successful discrimination based lawsuits that have been brought against companies in the tech world.
> Age discrimination has been one of the few successful discrimination based lawsuits that have been brought against companies in the tech world.
Rarely. A quick search indicates that only 3% of older employees file complaints, and, out of that, less than 1% result in lawsuits.
And that is pertaining to people who are already employed somewhere. What we are talking about here is finding a job. In that case the situation is likely far worse and also likely unknowable (in terms of stats).
This is why I say it feels like society discards you as useless after a certain fuzzy point in time.
This has to be a cultural change over time. I say this because, as a young engineer, I wanted to work with older, more experienced, engineers. In fact, I seriously benefitted from many mentors who were ten to twenty years older than me --lessons that have stayed with me to this day.
Not so today. I have been at companies where you might as well be at a college campus. I'll name one: SpaceX. I don't know the stats, but I remember going through there and thinking that the ratio of 20-somethings to older engineers has to be in a range between 50:1 and 100:1. The only way that happens is if you actively reject older candidates. I cannot dispute their success rate and what they have accomplished. I am just using this as a real example of just how bad it can be out there for older technologists.
Note that I am not proposing forced diversity of any kind. I think that is wrong. However, work and opportunities should be available based on experience, merit and capabilities and not at the exclusion of older candidates because they are not frat boys.
Once again, I will point at least one finger squarely at YC. I think they blatantly practice age discrimination. There is no fucking way older, experienced and capable engineers and scientists cannot innovate and launch successful startups. There's so much talent and potential out there being discarded. And, of course, there is no such thing as filing a lawsuit against an investor for age discrimination.
On my end, once I understood this reality I chose to exit the race and run my own business. Here I get to use my skills and experience to plot my own future, with the help of those who join me. And I most definitely appreciate the value of experience. There's nothing better than working with people who are better than you are and bring enough insight and experience to the table to help you steer clear of a long list of things you should not do.
Re: Ask HN: Former devs who can't get a job, what did you end up doing for work?
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have heard this a few times from different people/places, but why is it the case that at 50+ it is harder to find work? Assuming a regular retirement age, there are still many more years left in the career than a typical tech employment lasts.
> but why is it the case that at 50+ it is harder to find work? I think this begins to be visible even sooner, 38 if you graduated at 23. The majority of the job market requires very very few 15+ years experienced engineers. 5 to 10 years of experience is a sweet spot - you will be easily hired. Everything below and beyond is a struggle, especially for the latter since very few companies need and are willing to pay f…
I feel like I'm hitting this now. Just turned 39.
I'm very good in my niche, but businesses just want 'answer to question'. I can provide 'answer to question while also making sure the answer-generating process is fully reproducible, data limitations are addressed and made visible, uncertainty has been calculated and is included in the answer'.
Not every question needs that!
Most people are willing to pay for Ikea furniture, not hand-crafted artisanal pieces. Ikea is good enough.
Re: Ask HN: Former devs who can't get a job, what did you end up doing for work?
#204Re: Ask HN: Former devs who can't get a job, what did you end up doing for work?
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but I started to realize that pushing 50 and being as cynical as I now am, I'm pretty much unemployable as an IC. Well that's me. My theory is that it is not age that makes one unemployable in the software industry, but the unwillingness to put up with shit cooked up by bunch of 25 year old CEOs, CTOs, and the like.
At my last gig someone that my team unanimously rejected as unqualified showed up one day the following year as our new technical lead and boss. It went about how you'd expect. Much later I told my skip boss about the kind of feeling of disregard that may have fostered as he pushed me for insights. And he remarked that it sounded like I had a chip on my shoulder. All I could come up with was 'guess I was born with it…
The culture spoke to them and they didn't listen. How foolish.
Re: Ask HN: Former devs who can't get a job, what did you end up doing for work?
#206I’m usually hesitant to share but I’ve been doing commodities trading. There’s a humongous amount of BS out there about trading or day trading but the fact is that people do it and make it, and my best friend being a consistently profitable trader for the last 4 years didn’t help my skeptic case… At any rate, turns out that the challenge of trading is less of a technical or financial one. Sure, one needs to understan…
Lost money is 500 error. Profit is 200 success. Just debug.
Re: Ask HN: Former devs who can't get a job, what did you end up doing for work?
#207After I was laid off from JavaScript work for 6 months a recruiter contacted me to write APIs using a commercial enterprise platform. Its been great. I did that for almost a year before they promoted me to operations for the project. I should have moved away from JavaScript work much earlier in my career. I had on reverse beer goggles. I love JavaScript and writing programs in the language, but the problem is that al…
What about Node.js backend with typescript?
Re: Ask HN: Former devs who can't get a job, what did you end up doing for work?
#208I'm very fortunate to have a job right now because having an income is better than not having an income However, the company is sliding downhill imo, there have been constant layoffs and eventually I am sure I will be caught in one of them I'm really not happy about the idea of searching for a new job again, in this new "AI assisted morons" stage of bureaucracy I'm strongly thinking about trying to pivot to independe…
When times are though qualified independent consultants can more easily get gigs than an unemployed person can get a full-time job. From the point of view of companies they like the versatility of being able to let go of consultants if things are going down or if workload dries up.
I wish that was true. I haven't found work as a consultant in years as no one has budgets or can get approval for one
Re: Ask HN: Former devs who can't get a job, what did you end up doing for work?
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
And collect a full salary? That sounds rather like admitting there's an SWE bubble, and I can't imagine indicates good things for the future job market...
It's highly unlikely anyone is producing for all X hours in their work-week, especially in a "thinky" field, there has to be some time for the mind to digest and breathe. For many people this usually happens in the midst of chatting with coworkers, clicking through HN, or staring off longingly into a space that isn't there, passively thinking about a side-project, etc. Why pretend like this digestion time doesn't exi…
I consider thinky time to still be on-the-clock, but I don't think that's what the parent had in mind at all when they said "get away with doing part time hours" and "just do less."
Re: Ask HN: Former devs who can't get a job, what did you end up doing for work?
#210After I was laid off from JavaScript work for 6 months a recruiter contacted me to write APIs using a commercial enterprise platform. Its been great. I did that for almost a year before they promoted me to operations for the project. I should have moved away from JavaScript work much earlier in my career. I had on reverse beer goggles. I love JavaScript and writing programs in the language, but the problem is that al…
What about Node.js backend with typescript?
I am extremely confident in my Node.js performance and TypeScript. I do not see many Node jobs without also looking for some giant frontend frameworks like React.
My fear when looking at jobs that lean too heavily on a tech stack or tool list is that the job is too focused upon delivery in a narrow repeatable context as opposed to solutions delivery. That’s a huge red flag for me that just screams low confidence. I don’t want to work with people who are constantly afraid to do their jobs. That’s what most of my career feels like.
I don’t want to go back to a low confidence environment. It’s just too negative, too irrationally defensive, and too hostile. I would rather do something else, even for less money.