I have, it went well, and not only would I do it again, I actually did! The startup I'm currently working for was founded by the same group who launched the previous startup I worked for, and one of them had been a friend for many years before that.
Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
201–210 of 300 posts
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well put. Although, I'd say this view, much as I share it, makes it harder to find companies to work for. Especially in a tougher job market like right now. I'll do conversational technical interviews all day. Leet code and 6 interviews unrelated to the job, hell no. It's cynical, but once you've been through the meat grinder with layoffs, obsessive VC overgrowth and unfulfilled promises, I don't see another way so g…
Its fair to point out that US,VC company culture is not how most of the world works. Naturally if you revolve only in that space it may seem like it. And I can certainly see that culture leading to your viewpoint. Fortunately, my experience has not been like yours.
I'm not from the US. I've had the experiences that led to what I posted above with South African and UK companies. It's not isolated to the US - culture bleeds across.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an employer, I'll push back on this. I'll start by saying that if you want equity, then by all means seek out jobs that provide equity. In mu experience, people don't want equity as much as they want a living wage. They want a proper salary, every month, not some mythical payday in the future. If you can find a place that does both, thats fantastic. Incidentally if you have meaningful equity that comes with a bunc…
I’ll push back on everyone here: if you’re looking for a stable living wage, you’re a fool — especially in tech. The economy is cyclical. Tech runs on speculation and (used to) on lax tax rules. Likewise, hiring is based on asinine processes, asinine vogues of fashion, and asinine practices. At any moment in time you could be made persona non-grata in tech. If you joined tech for the passion of if, and you’re not ind…
... Wait, what on earth are you talking about? Like, assuming you're defining 'tech' as normally defined here (in practice, software engineer), there has never exactly been a huge shortage of jobs. These jobs are ~universally well above the locally prevailing living wage.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's wild that you said that amount because that was exactly the number. I have other friendships that have been tested for similar amounts that have survived. But, it leaves a mark. I had an ex-employee who worked for me under starvation wages in a startup long ago. He was upset about that and some tax implications, and brought it up with me. I gave him a smallish lump sum and enabled him to put a down payment on a…
Wow. $20k seems like a paltry sum to end a friendship over.
This forum is so out of touch with reality sometimes I'm just left blinking and shaking my head. 20,000 dollars is an enormous amount of money to a supermajority of people in the developed world. Almost half an annual wage for most industrial workers in the EU and US.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Such situations make me furious, but not so much at individuals as at the system. Getting equity in a startup is ridiculously high friction. It's often been a deal breaker for me; not because the founder themselves had personal objections, but because of bureaucratic nonsense such as; it was too much hassle legally or other large investors wouldn't like it, etc, etc... IMO, it should be illegal to launch a limited li…
> IMO, it should be illegal to launch a limited liability company/corporation and only allow specific people to buy shares. I object to the idea of incorporation and limiting directors' liability to begin with but since it is allowed, at the very least, it should be a requirement under the law that the shares be on the open market such that anyone who wants them can buy them and resell them at any time. I don't under…
You can't simultaneously have an open market for shares and highly regulated financial duties that protect investors. It would be better if there were options for employees to cash out part of equity in intermediate rounds and there are upsides to having more tradeable companies but the downside are most of these companies are near-scam like in terms of success rate and you want substantial bars to protect people when something like 90% of start-ups go broke.
Agree also breaking corporate liability shield gets insane quickly. You're going to have pension funds go broke for owning stock in the wrong company and employees on the hook for start-up debts when start-ups fail.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#206One of my favorite quotes is attributed to Saint Augustine: "If two friends ask you to judge a dispute, don't accept, because you will lose one friend; on the other hand, if two strangers come with the same request, accept, because you will gain one friend." It sort of applies, here, as well.
If two friends ask you to judge a dispute, and you don't accept... You might loose two friends since both of them think they are right and will not understand you do not support them.
I would trust they would instead be happy to have such a socially intelligent friend once the dust has cooled.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen an instance where someone would have to be 3 years at company to be able to cash their shares. He took it as an exchange for lower salary to help company grow. The owners closer to 2 year mark would make his life at company a hell, just so he would quit. He couldn't bear to work there anymore so he left and lost the shares.
3 years is or at least was absolutely standard. I did notice an uptick in 4 year vests, but not enough evidence to call it a trend.
3 or 4 years for full vesting, sure - but not to start vesting. A 6 month or 1 year "cliff" where you start vesting a portion of your shares is pretty standard.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#208I joined a good friend's startup as employee #1. I'm still there 13 years later; it hasn't always been perfectly smooth sailing, but I think we have a lot of mutual respect and are both humble enough to look back on past disagreements and see where the other probably had a good point on whatever the issue was.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's wild that you said that amount because that was exactly the number. I have other friendships that have been tested for similar amounts that have survived. But, it leaves a mark. I had an ex-employee who worked for me under starvation wages in a startup long ago. He was upset about that and some tax implications, and brought it up with me. I gave him a smallish lump sum and enabled him to put a down payment on a…
Wow. $20k seems like a paltry sum to end a friendship over.
That's a very privileged perspective to have... I know plenty of people for whom a sudden $20k shortfall would be existential.
Re: Ask HN: Those who've joined a friend's startup as an employee, how did that go?
#210Never do business with family and friends.
--My father, who worked for me for a few months...and it was terrible.