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Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

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Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#201
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me wonder whether companies should consider hiring more people dedicated to dealing with the red tape to unblock engineers. I suppose managers to a certain extent are the ones doing this work, but in many cases it's not enough, how about a new role that is dedicated to cutting the red tape?

Their called PMs (with P being Project, or Product, or Planning or whaterver) They tend to be people who couldn't cut it as actual engineers, and so they end up in administrative roles, the ones that OP lambasted as writing stories to write stories, and causing more work, because they need things explained to them slowly and with crayons, and that takes more time, because the engineers just want to be left alone mean…

> They tend to be people who couldn't cut it as actual engineers

I don't doubt your experience but it's also a harsh generalization.

I've worked with many TPM's who were skilled engineers. It can be a path to transition to management and test the waters before taking on formal management responsibility. Or some people just think differently and are good at managing organizational complexity and finding the actual needs before starting to build things.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#202
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " All of this, to dabble in code " I'm not a professional programmer, and when my laptop takes 10 minutes to start moving the mouse cursor smoothly after waking from a weekend suspend (today!), I'm pointing fingers at you all, the professional "dabblers" who don't understand computers, don't understand firewalls, don't understand databases, don't understand algorithms, don't understand garbage collectors, don't und…

Very reactionary take here. Blaming developers for everything that's wrong is just as bad-wrong as blaming everything on management, the C-suite, capitalism, or anything else. I've worked with some very ignorant, lazy, incompetent, individuals. Some had 'programmer' or 'developer' in their title, others were managers or product owners or QA, etc. etc. I do agree with your last point. I expect the real-world consequen…

I think he's focusing on the word "dabble", and how unprofessional it sounds. I'd be inclined to agree. I'm a developer and would never say I "dabble" in code. It just sounds light, playful and uncommitted. If your goal at work is to "dabble" in code because you're "passionate" about it, you have an unprofessional mindset. You're putting your passion above the mission. Maybe reading too much into a couple of words, particularly since this is the internet, but in general I'd recommend avoiding words like "passion" and "dabble" in professional contexts.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#203
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Once you start getting to intermediate-level dev, I really think more devs should think about specializing if only to start accumulating leverage by virtue of expertise and authority on a subject. If your career is made to be safe and as similar to everyone else, it is much harder to gain leverage. You can't trust capital to take care of you.

Specialization is a trap though too. You can make it work (and lucratively!) for 10-15 years, but that's nowhere near a full career, and then at some point you wake up to find out you've specialized in OS/2 or Smalltalk and the only jobs around are in defense or gambling kiosks.

Good point. And it can be hard to bootstrap yourself into specialized jobs. Once you're there you have a different set of problems: smaller job pool, more qualified candidates in general, and no guarantee that your specialization will always be needed.

Beats the race to the bottom that is endemic to mainstream tech though!

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#204

2010: edit html button 1. install ftp/sourcesafe 2. connect to url and authenticate 3. edit button 4. upload 2023: edit html button 1. install git 2. setup git credentials in terminal 3. setup git ssh key in terminal and browsers 4. use internal bootstrap tool to install node 5. macos no longer supports bash, spend 10 mins switching everything to zsh 6. install npm 7. try to clone and install the code with npm i 8. 2…

In other words, set up your dev environment? And if you were just setting up your dev environment your working tree wouldn't be dirty. Your impossibly pessimistic scenario is sadly impossible.

There literally is not a problem on this list I have not run into in my real life career.

If setting up your environment requires all this, your environment is too complicated. But unfortunately, many production projects require environments this complicated.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#205
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> about half of her time is spent filling out forms and jumping through bureaucratic hoops I was reading research on this recently because I’m working on an EHR software. The cited study concluded that physicians spend about 15% of their time face-to-face with patients and about 17% filling out documentation. For interns it’s worse with 11% time with patients and 22% writing things down. This was in Principles of Hea…

> all this documentation has been shown to literally save lives The docs saved them.

As I said earlier, some processes are beneficial. Properly documenting something can help doctors do their job correctly.

The same is true for programming. Having good comments, unit tests, and other things that can sometimes seem tedious while we do them; can actually save us time and help us write better code.

It comes down to having the right balance of process where it helps instead of gets in the way. The trouble with bureaucracies is they never know when to stop growing.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#206
I'm in a job now that mostly involves bare Linux network programming in C. The only dependencies are CMake, VS Code with C/C++ plugin, and the regular Linux libraries. No "sprints" or "Agile" or "tickets" or cruft like that - just delivering incremental value to customers at a reliable pace. Gosh I love it and it brings me straight back to my happy place. I once worked a job adjacent to modern web development and front-end stuff and man, that stuff just sucks and is not fun.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#207
I recommend doing "minimalistic software engineering" - an approach when you use as few technologies as possible and prefer something simple (that is easy to accommodate in your intuition) that works out of the box.

I've made a presentation about this approach at FOSDEM 2023: https://presentations.clickhouse.com/fosdem2023/

(the video will be published soon)

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#208

The red tape is garroting us. My wife's dev environment VMs are 'remediated' at 8pm regardless if she's using them or not - there is no override policy - and the company is singing the success story of saving 40 dollars in licensing. At another corporation, it can take several weeks to learn how to fill out the IAM role and permission boundaries to allow a new app to run - and a governance board has to review it and…

> " All of this, to dabble in code " I'm not a professional programmer, and when my laptop takes 10 minutes to start moving the mouse cursor smoothly after waking from a weekend suspend (today!), I'm pointing fingers at you all, the professional "dabblers" who don't understand computers, don't understand firewalls, don't understand databases, don't understand algorithms, don't understand garbage collectors, don't und…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#209

I'd argue the current culture is set up to create this very scenario. You've realized that your work is stripped of many elements of creativity in the name of making you replaceable. Of course, we can't say that last part, so we instead talk up how great tooling is, and how quickly we can onboard people (Nobody asks why there is such a need to onboard people so often, or so quickly.) When your pursuit of mastery is t…

> I'd argue the current culture is set up to create this very scenario.

Bureaucratization (aka "bullshit jobs") is the inevitable result of organizational psychology and risk aversion.

More participants -> more coordination overhead -> more fallacies (groupthink, sunk costs, myopia, etc) -> delay, overruns, and failure.

> Started self-teaching myself compilers...

Fewer "stakeholders", more autonomy, less need for permission.

Re: Ask HN: I’m falling out of love with coding

#210
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> about half of her time is spent filling out forms and jumping through bureaucratic hoops I was reading research on this recently because I’m working on an EHR software. The cited study concluded that physicians spend about 15% of their time face-to-face with patients and about 17% filling out documentation. For interns it’s worse with 11% time with patients and 22% writing things down. This was in Principles of Hea…

Hilariously, the rates are even better if you have a medical transcriber in the room, taking notes for the doctor so they can focus. ... as long as we can get patients to speak in the normal way they would with a doctor, instead of being inhibited because of the second person in the room.

> as long as we can get patients to speak in the normal way they would with a doctor, instead of being inhibited because of the second person in the room.

Now... That looks like a place where AI can help.

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