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Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

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201–210 of 350 posts

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#201
post #43

For me it’s the insane hazing ritual of the tech interview process that makes me want to leave the industry. I’m going through it again now, and honestly am pretty miserable. It has a large negative impact on the rest of my life and my mental health. When I was younger it was manageable, but the fact you have to do this even mid or late career every few years is insane to me. Wish I had gone into literally any other…

I'm there too, but trying to take a different mindset.

For one, the requirements are utterly clear so you CAN systematically prepare and do well even if you lack the exact years of experience they're asking for.

Two, the payoff is massive if you're in the US. I mean.. if you land at a FANGetc, you can literally put your feet up, buy a house anywhere, send all your kids to Harvard, and retire before your parents ever dreamed.

Three, prepare slowly over time. I would do one or two leet code questions a month. Pickup a trick here and there. When I hating my job now, I do a few per week. Now I've accrued most of the knowledge about these questions and interviews are a lot easier

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#203
I think you mix a lot of different problems into one.

>I can't bare the endless meetings, constant micromanagement

This _can_ be fixed. Even if by switching team or even jobs. With some experience you start to understand in what teams and under what management you work best. A lot of us hate micromanagement. And I can tell you there are a lot of teams without this problem. I would say that micromanagement is the least common problem from what you mentioned here. Simply because it usually leads to overall inefficiency. Also this one you can actually fix by talking with your manager. Maybe they just don't trust you or overprotect you. Nobody wants to do your job ;).

Endless meetings are harder to fix. If your level is high enough you can try to fight it. But usually it is easier to just switch the team and even your work area. Do something lower level, further from API. Even in the worst business-centered jobs there are places where they need to you solve technical problems. Simply because meetings won't solve those technical problems ;).

> I can't bare the devs that go out of their way to work weekends without being asked

this one is on you. It shouldn't affect you personally, unless they ping you on the weekend for 'quick lgtm'. I understand it can be annoying, especially when they advertise such work as something heroic. You either need to stop caring about that or try to explain to your manager that promoting such behaviour in the team demotivates others. Actually I once was one of those 'work during weekend' guys. I had my reasons. After complains from my friends in the team, I simply stopped announcing any such work, so unless anyone specifically wanted to check commit time, they were completely unaware if I actually did something on the weekend. It worked relatively well. So while I sometimes like to overtime, I'm sure it is unhealthy for the whole team to advertise/promote someone for doing so.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#204
You think too much ! Let the poor guys work weekends if they want, dont go to meetings you're not useful at, say yes yes to micro managers and never ever bring stress home, or quit immediately if somehow that's not possible.

I tend to really relativise the importance of what I work on. None of us are defending the nation or pioneering a moon landing, all can wait, all is a game to some extent.

When an agitated user comes to me with a demand to fix a problem that has been here for 20 years, I do as if it was important to be nice, but hell if Im going to stress about all this at night ! I'll do my best or fail trying, the big deal.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#205
post #68

I highly recommend doing what I have done most of my career. Get a job at smaller to medium sized non-tech company. Every company, in any industry, has computers. They need you. You don't have to work with a bunch of tech or finance people. You can get a job working with chill people in some other industry with a better culture. When it comes time to negotiate, negotiate HARD. And not just for money, but especially t…

I work at a private school and do a lot of data work that involves a substantial bit of programming. I CANNOT imagine a better work environment in terms of getting to enjoy the bits of tech that I like without all of the negative stuff that I see out there. The one thing I certainly lose out on is strong programming peers and people to learn deeply technical things from, but everything else is a positive: culture is excellent, I get to participate in all sorts of things that aren't programming related, have the freedom to tie technical itches that I want to scratch with work projects, etc. It's truly awesome, but something I would only recommend for someone who is looking at their job more wholistically and is ready to embrace some really major QoL gains with a very appreciable downside of probably developing less "technically" than you would at a traditional shop.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#208
post #68

I highly recommend doing what I have done most of my career. Get a job at smaller to medium sized non-tech company. Every company, in any industry, has computers. They need you. You don't have to work with a bunch of tech or finance people. You can get a job working with chill people in some other industry with a better culture. When it comes time to negotiate, negotiate HARD. And not just for money, but especially t…

> Get a job at smaller to medium sized non-tech company. Every company, in any industry, has computers. They need you. I personally had the worst experience at such jobs. Small/medium sized non-tech companies don't value technology and don't understand its importance. If it works, you're invisible and just a cost center, if it doesn't you're to blame. For work/life balance I've found big tech corps the best (not FAAN…

The world is different now. It's 2022 and the value of technology is far more clear to the average person.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#209
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is if you started with no code, can you round the rough edges? One reason we use code instead of no code is so we can extend the product in any direction that is necessary, not just the few that were anticipated by a tool.

Many are impressed by the no-code claims and start that way only to get bitten after a few minor successes by said rough edge - then what else can you do than try to soften your current investment's thorns. And arguably anything can be addressed, given the right motivation/time/money.

My last few jobs have been replacing no-code setups. It certainly doesn't take teams long to figure out how bad the current offering suck. Sometimes only 3-4 integrations in.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I hear about no code, I think about the code written by PROFESSIONALS that leads to list like Dan Luu's "Everything is broken": https://danluu.com/everything-is-broken/ If professional at top quality firms with the best tools can't write code that works, how is "no code" written by people that don't understand going to work better?

No-code is more likely to be written by people who are direct experts in the business domain, unlike the telephone game that is the development cycle in most software orgs.

I work with experts in the business domain, often C-Suite as a consultant. I've come to understand the domains almost as well as them for the companies I work with. While this knowledge is invaluable, and critical to getting the solution right in my experience they still would be completely lost when it comes to a no-code solution.

They generally only think happy path and have a really hard time understanding why you need to think about edge cases. They don't understand how to structure data or implement robust processes.

No code is great for very simple things. Fill out a form and send it in an email. But for more important and complex things we'll still need programmers. I'm not yet convinced that no-code is an amplifier for programmers. Beginners maybe, but more experienced developers are in my opinion far more likely to be productive in a text based environment.

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