This is one of the reasons why people import their camera (apart from different pricing). If you buy the EU model, you get different terms that say they'll only collect data if you approve it and for EU models you can always email dataprivacy@red.com and they'll tell you what data they have stored and how it's used.
Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?
201–210 of 234 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?
#202Maybe quit RED all together an switch to Black Magic
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/at/products/blackmagicursam...
Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Why would the manufacturer of a professional-targeted camera take an action that would destroy their business? To make the next quarters number look better.
It’s uh, a privately held company..
Privately held companies can still issue bonuses tied to quarterly performance.
Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?
#204RED has always had all sorts of BS licensing gobbleygook. When the first RED cameras finally became available, the software absolute shit. They had all sorts of stuff in their license agreements about not reverse engineering, not redistributing, et cetera. I had to figure out many parts of their software and make wrappers and separate tools so that queues could be started and run without monitoring, because their sof…
> Honestly, though, the quality of their codecs suck. The color information just isn't there. You can watch Netflix and immediately tell which things were shot on RED, because they'll be grainy (which they think is a feature) and will lack nuanced color.
This is all just false. Their codes allow you to record actual RAW data from the sensor in 16 bits. All the color nuance is there.
RED cameras are crazy expensive and are used by Hollywood, Netflix, and thousands of professional studios. They are the golden standard, along with Arri cameras.
Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They don't need the whole clip. They can easily grab a single frame, encoded and compressed to minimize the filesize. Yeah, that would be valid telemetry, though telemetry should be opt-out, it's fairly innocuous. > It could be constantly trying to phone home over open wireless networks (or partner hotspots). Hell for all I know the thing could have a 3g radio in it, constantly talking to home. It's pretty silly to…
Plus, RED's goal is to move product. Sell Cameras. Become the de Facto standard camera for aspiring, indie, and professional movie and TV studios around the world. Stealing a single picture out of a 60fps camera for no particular purpose won't put money in their back pocket. Building a 3g modem into a camera and paying cellular data fees to occasionally snoop into their users' memory cards won't earn them a penny. Th…
Why ruin a perfectly good argument in two paragraphs by poisoning the well in the third?
Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
On consumer relations that is very clear. Any rule that isn't on the marketing material does not exist. But on business relations, things are way more complex. I wouldn't be surprised if some rules were perfectly enforceable.
It's not part of the contract of sale if it is not possible to read it before agreeing to buy. You can't impose extra conditions on the buyer after the sale. I suppose I should point out that I'm not a lawyer and that the US situation might be very different. The OP should consult a lawyer or return the camera for a refund if he feels unsure about the meaning of the agreement.
> You can't impose extra conditions on the buyer after the sale.
Yes, but B2B sales come on all kinds of shapes. On some cases there is clear not an agreement on the EULA terms, but I'm not sure that is a universal rule.
Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's a pretty long haul claiming that something isn't fit for purpose because you don't like an EULA that's available on the website prior to purchase
That's absurd. If you buy something in a store you may never have visited the website of the manufacturer. It's not fit for purpose if you need to agree to a new contract, the terms of which were not disclosed to you before you made the purchase, before you can use it for its intended purpose.
The courts have repeatedly held that being past that point in an installer is evidence of consent, so take it up with them, I guess
Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?
#208Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've hired a few, and they're all well aware that sloppy boilerplate is commonplace. They often suggest you take a realist approach to the situation as a whole, and consider the incentives of those involved.
This is exactly the answer. Why would the manufacturer of a professional-targeted camera take an action that would destroy their business?
Modern companies do this constantly and nobody cares.
Re: Ask HN: Is the EULA on my new $30k RED cinema camera legal?
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They don't need the whole clip. They can easily grab a single frame, encoded and compressed to minimize the filesize. Yeah, that would be valid telemetry, though telemetry should be opt-out, it's fairly innocuous. > It could be constantly trying to phone home over open wireless networks (or partner hotspots). Hell for all I know the thing could have a 3g radio in it, constantly talking to home. It's pretty silly to…
Plus, RED's goal is to move product. Sell Cameras. Become the de Facto standard camera for aspiring, indie, and professional movie and TV studios around the world. Stealing a single picture out of a 60fps camera for no particular purpose won't put money in their back pocket. Building a 3g modem into a camera and paying cellular data fees to occasionally snoop into their users' memory cards won't earn them a penny. Th…
It's the user data selling I would be concerned about. They are obviously getting another revenue stream from people that can afford 30k cameras. Which is a godamn goldmine for data sets.