just curious, how do they even know you were even "violating" their patent? or does something like saving a JSON count as a "remote database?"
or they sniff your app with some MITM proxy?
Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?
201–210 of 321 posts
Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly if a competitor came to me for help with a patent troll who'd previously targeted me, I'd bend over backwards to assist. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
As I've noted in other comments many people see business as war. There are good examples in business but the history of war has even better examples. Time and time again "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" can work until one enemy is vanquished. In WW2 Stalin initially made a pact with Hitler while all the while knowing Hitler would violate it and invade anyway. Stalin just used it to buy time to ramp up the Soviet…
> In WW2 Stalin initially made a pact with Hitler while all the while knowing Hitler would violate it and invade anyway. Stalin just used it to buy time to ramp up the Soviet military. From what I recall it's likely Hitler assumed this as well and used the pact to delay dealing with the Soviets militarily and focus on his Western front to snatch up as much of Europe as possible.
Not true at all. 1) Stalin was caught off guard by the invasion. We know this because he holded up in his private residence for a few days afterwards until the Politburo came visited him and asked him what he was going to do.
2) The Russian military was not tactically or strategically ready when the Germans attacked. We know this because the Russians lost millions of soldiers by encirclement in the days and weeks after the start of the war. If Russian military had been ready, it would have been in much better position(s).
3) Stalin had purged thousands of quality officers and NCOs from the Russian military. You can't have a good military without a professional, respected and well maintained NCOs core. If Stalin thought the Germans would really attack, he would have built up a professional officer and NCO core.
The three things that really saved Russia are January, February and the willingness of the Russian people to do anything for Russia, regardless of who is in charge.
Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the case of a patent troll, the competitors are probably also on the future target list. It's in their interest to help fight this troll.
I know it's just TV, but this situation played out differently on Silicon Valley. Instead, the competitors hopped to the front of the line to pay off the patent troll before a successful case emboldened the troll to raise their price. Has anyone actually heard of things playing out this way in reality?
I wonder if paying the troll wouldn't just get them more trolls, now that they appear to be a soft target?
Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is basically just a rephrasing of, "This is an awfully nice store you got here. Would be a shame if something were to happen to it."
I've always wondered if sublicensing was a way to get around this. Instead of owning the core technology itself, set up an offshore holding company to own the technology rights, then "license" them out. The main company probably can't be sued since they have a legal contract for the tech and if they go after the holding company, fine, the parent company can then "license" tech from another, similar holding company.
If you compare patents to weapons, the above is like privateering. For big companies there is also MAD analogy.
Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lawyers, like any other profession, are 95% incompetent. Finding the 5% that are competent is harder than it looks. And the hourly rate and/or physical location of said lawyer bares no correlation to competence level. And once you find that person they usually get scooped up and become GC for some VC funded startup or whatever because word travels.
Are you saying that carpenters, electricians, pumblers, builders, cobblers, taxi drivers, nurses, and public school teachers are 95% incompetant? If so, please kindly provide anecdata. This is a positively ridiculous acusation.
My partner is a nurse by trade and has observed negligent behavior by medical professions every single time we've been to a hospital. Most of the time it is minor, but there have been times where she's had to speak up and get supervisors involved.
I'd say that "95% of people exhibit incompetence at least once per shift" is not far from the truth. I've been in taxis where the driver has run redlights. I built a house so I know all about keeping tradesman honest.
Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure it's still considered rude.
You're obviously not a woman who has had to deal with potentially threatening people in your love life. Among women ghosting is 100% a legitimate way to refuse a second/third/etc. date. In business, companies routinely ghost candidates they're not interested in because of the hassle and risk in interacting with candidates who are clearly no-hires. You don't owe anyone with whom you do not have a solid established rel…
> Among women ghosting is 100% a legitimate way to refuse a second/third/etc. date.
Even back in the prehistoric times of my dating days, which was before I recall the term "ghosting" existed, it wasn't an uncommon thing. It might have been disappointing on occasion, but I never found it "rude". It wasn't very hard to take the hint and move on.
Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's definitely no privilege with a competitor. Telling a competitor that you are being sued by a patent troll does not impair confidentiality. And if they are a true competitor, it is very likely that they have also been sued by the patent troll, or are next on the list, and may join in multi-party litigation against the troll. You signal to your competitors the very weak and vulnerable position you're in. Maybe…
"Successful" businesses are ruthless at any size. Due to litigation, etc we have internal documents and records dating back to the 80s that demonstrate how ruthless Microsoft (as one example) was even at a time when they were relatively small. I'm not saying this is always the case. I'm saying that unless you're completely desperate or absolutely know otherwise it's the safer assumption.
Not sure why you were downvoted.
I nice worked for a Big 5 company. I'm not aware of Machiavellian efforts to destroy competitors; they just bought them.
I've worked for an international software company with ~1,500 staff. I do not think our management were inclined to collaborate with their competitors unneccessarily; they had a fiduciary duty to their shareholders.
I've worked for two small-town website developers, with say 10 staff. There's four or five competitors in this town. My management were happy to collaborate with competitors to stage conferences; but I know in both cases they wanted to crush them.
None of these jobs was in SV, or even in the US.
I note the story about IBM's threats (above); so my limited view is that aggressive behaviour between companies occurs across the range of scale.
Incidentally: it doesn't make you seem weak and defenceless that you seek a collaborator in fighting a patent troll. The trolls are backed by venture capital; you are a sole trader. That you are considering defying them is courageous.
Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've always wondered if sublicensing was a way to get around this. Instead of owning the core technology itself, set up an offshore holding company to own the technology rights, then "license" them out. The main company probably can't be sued since they have a legal contract for the tech and if they go after the holding company, fine, the parent company can then "license" tech from another, similar holding company.
If you compare patents to weapons, the above is like privateering. For big companies there is also MAD analogy.
So I think what I'm talking about his more of a decoy than a privateer. I think of privateering as plausible deniability in attacking someone.
Whereas, what I'm suggesting is more structuring a business such that they can't be sued for patent infringement since they don't own the technology that is allegedly infringing. So if your company receives a cease-and-desist letter, your lawyers can respond with a contract from Core Technology LLC granting you license to use the technology as you deem if, and that the Patent Troll needs to contact Core Technology LLC if they have patent issues.
In the mean time, you can stop licensing from Core Technology LLC and instead move to a new vendor, Core Technology II LLC, who offers an improved product anyway.
The goal being to make it not worth pursuing your business.
Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?
#209As someone who has dealt with this I suggest you figure out a way to avoid the patent. Read through the claims, figure out what combination of features they have patented and then change your product to avoid those features in that combination. You likely can either do something more advanced or something less advanced -- if you have the choice do the more advanced solution as you are then likely pushing your product…
> Fighting patents is for rich, established companies. You do not have the luxury.
That is the impression I've formed.
Re: Ask HN: I was hit with a patent troll lawsuit, how do I deal with it?
#210I am an IP litigator, and I have dealt with patent trolls repeatedly. I have taken these kinds of cases pro bono in the past for small companies (including through the EFF attorney referral list, https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance ), and I know that others have as well. There are definitely low-cost and pro bono (free) options out there for very small businesses. The EFF attorney referral list is a good place…
I'm curious. Can you counter sue a company like that? Since they do affect productive companies, that must be some law against that...
Can you counter sue? Absolutely!
But, as I tell my kids: Just because you're right doesn't mean you won't go bankrupt proving it in a court of law.