Use Matrix or KeyBase and self host. Im shocked how much people still trust these shady companies.
Ask HN: How do we know Signal or Telegram don't store our data on their servers?
201–210 of 241 posts
Re: Ask HN: How do we know Signal or Telegram don't store our data on their servers?
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't matter if it's not. Security should depend completely on the clients. Public-key crypto allows private communication through insecure channels.
No, it does. In some cases (think dictatorship) - you not only want the secret police to not read your messages - you don't want them to know at all, who are you talking to(and how often and when!). Otherwise you might all go to jail (or worse), if they are after one contact of yours. And then you can try to feel save, that they don't know your encryption password. https://xkcd.com/538/
Session is a signal-derived app that attempts to mitigate these types of information leaks.
Edit: see discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25690036
Re: Ask HN: How do we know Signal or Telegram don't store our data on their servers?
#203One reason you can believe the claim is that there's no real market for personal data, despite the folk belief that everyone's data is somehow worth a fortune.
No real market is an easily disprovable claim. While not worth a fortune in the small, in bulk it's worth a imperial butt load. Attention is what you're able to sell. That's advertising and sales. E.g. do you think that those associated with others in right wing militia would be more or less sensitive to advertisements for gear for prepping? How big is that market?
Around 6 hours later...
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/facebook-profit...
Re: Ask HN: How do we know Signal or Telegram don't store our data on their servers?
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Easy" is a moveable feast. Your phone is running an APK, which is a bunch of signed code. You don't have the keys to sign such an APK yourself, but you can get tools that will tell you exactly what's inside the one you have. I believe the Java source in GitHub is designed to be capable of a reproducible build, where you get the exact same Java binaries out as Signal's own builders did and thus you can compare that t…
The source have a script that builds in a docker from a bunch of other previously built binaries, allegedly to be built with keys that are secret, and then just output "the apks are the same" and you have to believe that ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ Still, years ahead anything else that actually have users. The server is mostly 100% closed source. There's one open source that you can host, but it's widely believed to not be even close…
For anyone looking for the script: https://signal.org/blog/reproducible-android/
Re: Ask HN: How do we know Signal or Telegram don't store our data on their servers?
#205While not directly about data storage, I loved this tweet [1] from Edward Snowdon this week: > do we really trust signal? cause i see zero reason to. Here's a reason: I use it every day and I'm not dead yet. [1] https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1347217810368442368?s=20
I like this reason because you don't need to know anything about tech at all to be able to understand this. You also don't need to trust or like Snowden. If you view Snowden as a hero or a traitor, it changes nothing. All you need to trust is that he's got no reason to lie about using Signal, and neither does Elon Musk.
Unless he's an NSA operative who's promoting a honeypot.
Re: Ask HN: How do we know Signal or Telegram don't store our data on their servers?
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The way I've been presenting it to people is that Telegram can look at more data than WhatsApp can. But WhatsApp will use the data they have more than Telegram will. That's the tradeoff. I think you should look at the odds of that "can" turning into a "will" over time. After an acquisition, or a change in business fortunes, or a change in leadership...
It will happen. So far Telegram has developed without consideration for revenue, but it cannot last too long. According to his own numbers [1], Durov's entire net worth [2] can only sustain Telegram for about a decade. [1] https://t.me/s/durov/142 [2] https://www.forbes.com/profile/pavel-durov/
> 500 million active users
> A project of our size needs at least a few hundred million dollars per year to keep going.
Is it just me or does order of $1 per user sound like a lot?
Re: Ask HN: How do we know Signal or Telegram don't store our data on their servers?
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
"And Mr. Musk's endorsement of Signal last week sent publicly traded shares of Signal Advance Inc., a small medical device maker, soaring from a roughly $50 million market value to more than $3 billion. (The company has no relation to the messaging app.)" https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/technology/telegram-signa...
lol Can they keep the money?
That's not how the share market works ...
Re: Ask HN: How do we know Signal or Telegram don't store our data on their servers?
#208Re: Ask HN: How do we know Signal or Telegram don't store our data on their servers?
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe you have self-destroy timers in Signal. Perhaps those help.
Snapchat was based around that and people still copied content. If someone can read it, then they can copy it.
it more so prevents people from retroactively going back in time and scraping data they wouldn't have in the moment. Many of my chats expire all messages after 24 hours because of this.
Most people will not archive all texts they get in the moment, it's only after some fallout or event happens they there's motivation to dig up old messages.
Re: Ask HN: How do we know Signal or Telegram don't store our data on their servers?
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe so directly, but you can build it yourself and put it on your phone. You'll still be able to use your account and their service.
Someone should file a PR with a git hash (and some form of proof) of the currently running app?
What could possibly comprise suitable proof? Anyone tampering with the app can edit it to show the same information.