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Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you remember printing in 2000? The impression I get from HN comments is users of monochrome business laser printers from 2000 are the only people who are happy with their printers :)

The fallacy of "they don't build them like they used to" applies equally to bridges from 1850, cars from 1970, and printers from 2000: the poorly built bridges fell down, the cars with inferior parts rusted, and the printers with chronic issues got Office Spaced. So of course only the well-made examples survived.

Seconded, however I don't expect our best aqueducts to last 2000+ years

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2016/11-...

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you remember printing in 2000? The impression I get from HN comments is users of monochrome business laser printers from 2000 are the only people who are happy with their printers :)

The fallacy of "they don't build them like they used to" applies equally to bridges from 1850, cars from 1970, and printers from 2000: the poorly built bridges fell down, the cars with inferior parts rusted, and the printers with chronic issues got Office Spaced. So of course only the well-made examples survived.

Actually the printers they are upset about in Office Space (with the ‘PC LOAD LETTER’ message, not the prop they smash) are the practically indestructible early HP LaserJets.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#203
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a basically bulletproof monochrome HP 4000 series or similar that has cheap cartridges that last 5-10k pages, easy/cheap maintenance (a whole new set of rubber rollers costs $30-50, and is basically the only part that wears out), and a low printing volume, I can totally see having a printer for 20 years.

Same here. Happy HP 4000 owner. 1999 technology and it never fails. Maybe get a paper jam once a year. The only trouble I have is the plastic is getting kind of brittle and little odds and ends snap off but the printer still functions exactly the way it did 20 years ago.

A sneaky issue with these printers though is that they use an excessive amount of power even when doing nothing.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fallacy of "they don't build them like they used to" applies equally to bridges from 1850, cars from 1970, and printers from 2000: the poorly built bridges fell down, the cars with inferior parts rusted, and the printers with chronic issues got Office Spaced. So of course only the well-made examples survived.

Seconded, however I don't expect our best aqueducts to last 2000+ years https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2016/11-...

There also a saying that "Anybody can build a bridge that stands up, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands up". The 2,000 year old aqueducts were massively overbuilt, not because they wanted them to stay up forever but because they didn't know how to make them stand up for 20 years without building in a factor of 100 safety margin.

Our aqueducts won't last 2,000 years, but we built them for a fraction of the cost. They'll fall down in 100 years, but we'll rebuild them with something even stronger and even cheaper.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#205
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you remember printing in 2000? Literally every printer was suffering from constant paper jams and other mechanical malfunctions. In 2020 a top consumer or business printer will not jam on you. The business printers in 2000 had slow processors and more ram. It was significantly bad that printing PDFs spent more time processing the file than putting toner on page. Finally, the interfacing for printers today is fanta…

> Do you remember printing in 2000? The impression I get from HN comments is users of monochrome business laser printers from 2000 are the only people who are happy with their printers :)

In the 90s I used an Epson MX-80 dot matrix printer. I think it was created in the early 80s. The thing used paper with holes on the perforated sides, so the sides could be easily removed but also moving the paper along is much easier like this. Actually it worked quite reliably as far as I can remember and some people actually appreciated the unique style of the printings in letters. Eventually I got a more modern printer though but not because it broke. It did support printing of arbitrary files but also supported printing console characters. Therefore it basically needed no drivers for default monospace font printing.

At least for the fun factor it might make sense to start with dot matrix printing. (I think it's still far superior to thermo printers ;-))

Really no comparison to modern printers in terms of reliability. I bought my last printer with 5 years guaranty upgrade. I'd ditch the printer completely if it wasn't still required for some official paperwork :/

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#206
post #90
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of patents? I had tank of an HP laserjet 3 in the 90s, and patent life is 20 years. For the basic functionality, they should all be expired at this point, and the limiting factor at the time was the high cost of memory and compute. Shouldn't anything relevant have expired years ago? The first laserjet came out in 1984 it seems. Prices have come down, but I haven't seen any real innovation in printers (not t…

Do you remember printing in 2000? Literally every printer was suffering from constant paper jams and other mechanical malfunctions. In 2020 a top consumer or business printer will not jam on you. The business printers in 2000 had slow processors and more ram. It was significantly bad that printing PDFs spent more time processing the file than putting toner on page. Finally, the interfacing for printers today is fanta…

Screams into void...

Where's my open source dot matrix?

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#207
post #3

See also: https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-d... ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 ) Some of the documents that we previously received through FOIA suggested that all major manufacturers of color laser printers entered a secret agreement with governments to ensure that the output of those printers is forensically traceable.

This and exactly this; 2D printing technology is sealed tight because of those damn microdots. Lulz

I wonder if this is why color printers won't print out black & white print jobs when they run out of color ink, even if they still have black ink.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#208
post #90
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of patents? I had tank of an HP laserjet 3 in the 90s, and patent life is 20 years. For the basic functionality, they should all be expired at this point, and the limiting factor at the time was the high cost of memory and compute. Shouldn't anything relevant have expired years ago? The first laserjet came out in 1984 it seems. Prices have come down, but I haven't seen any real innovation in printers (not t…

Do you remember printing in 2000? Literally every printer was suffering from constant paper jams and other mechanical malfunctions. In 2020 a top consumer or business printer will not jam on you. The business printers in 2000 had slow processors and more ram. It was significantly bad that printing PDFs spent more time processing the file than putting toner on page. Finally, the interfacing for printers today is fanta…

My HP Laserjet 4L does not jam at all but instead prints and prints and prints and prints and .... since the 90ies till today and probably years to come.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#209
post #90
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of patents? I had tank of an HP laserjet 3 in the 90s, and patent life is 20 years. For the basic functionality, they should all be expired at this point, and the limiting factor at the time was the high cost of memory and compute. Shouldn't anything relevant have expired years ago? The first laserjet came out in 1984 it seems. Prices have come down, but I haven't seen any real innovation in printers (not t…

Do you remember printing in 2000? Literally every printer was suffering from constant paper jams and other mechanical malfunctions. In 2020 a top consumer or business printer will not jam on you. The business printers in 2000 had slow processors and more ram. It was significantly bad that printing PDFs spent more time processing the file than putting toner on page. Finally, the interfacing for printers today is fanta…

> Do you remember printing in 2000? Literally every printer was suffering from constant paper jams and other mechanical malfunctions.

Paper has a right-side-up, and your printing life improves drastically if you just look at the little arrow before putting the paper in the printer.

https://www.xerox.com/downloads/gbr/en/p/Paper_Guide.pdf

> As the front and back surfaces of the paper, as determined during the papermaking process, differ slightly, one side is preferred as the side to image first. The primary determinant of which side to print first is the paper’s curl characteristics.

> If you are using a quality paper intended for digital printing, the ream wrapper will be marked with an arrow that points to the preferred printing side. Print on this side when printing one side only; print this side first when printing on both sides of a sheet.

> Whether this side is to be loaded UP or DOWN in the paper tray has to be determined for each machine (and sometimes for each paper tray) by reading the system's operator guide. Once you've determined the correct orientation, marking each paper tray with a label indicating the correct loading direction helps avoid operator error and lost productivity.

> Determining Curl

> In the event a paper ream is not marked for correct print-side orientation, it may be necessary to determine the curl direction yourself. Do this by holding a 1/2-inch stack of paper by one of its short edges (refer to figure 4-2). Let the paper hang with the long edge parallel to your body. Either the lower edge or the two side edges will be curling slightly toward the center. Observe which way the edge(s) curl. This is the curl side. Load the paper into the tray such that the side opposite the direction of curl is imaged first.

> Note: If the ream had an arrow marking, it would point to the OPPOSITE side. Load into the paper tray in the appropriate direction

> Built-in Curl

> Xerox papers are manufactured with a small amount of “reverse curl,” so that they will be very close to flat after processing – this will facilitate any post-processing that needs to occur, such as binding, trimming or folding. Load according to the arrow direction for best results.

> Loading The Paper Tray

> Carefully unwrap the reams of paper to be loaded, taking care not to bend any of the sheets or otherwise damage the paper. Inspect the paper for any obvious signs of damage (bends, folds, crumpled or wavy edges, tight edges), or defects. Fan the paper as necessary to avoid sticking edges. Do not handle the paper any more than necessary.

> Load the reams into the paper tray one at a time, taking care to observe the correct orientation, as indicated by the ream wrapper arrow.

> When more than one ream is being loaded, it is important to make certain the reams are aligned atop one another. It is easy to wrinkle, bend, or otherwise alter the top sheet of a lower ream when placing another one on top of it. The interface between reams in the paper tray is a frequent source of jams. It is particularly important to avoid loading successive reams inconsistently (some arrow up, some arrow down).

> Observe the paper fill line marked on all paper trays and do not load paper above this line.

There's a bunch more there about correct storage.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers?

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded, however I don't expect our best aqueducts to last 2000+ years https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2016/11-...

There also a saying that "Anybody can build a bridge that stands up, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands up". The 2,000 year old aqueducts were massively overbuilt, not because they wanted them to stay up forever but because they didn't know how to make them stand up for 20 years without building in a factor of 100 safety margin. Our aqueducts won't last 2,000 years, but we built them for a…

Got any evidence/examples for that, where the cost of building for 100 vs 1000 years has been worked out?
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