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Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

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201–210 of 266 posts

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#201
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the fediverse, you're more likely be able to say "Hey Lisa, why did you ban me?" than you can get into contact with the Youtube/Facebook/etc forces that be. That may or may not be better because your admin may respond "Well because I think you're a jerk and disagree with your political views" but at least you can migrate to a new instance still instead of just being banned for all eternity.

If you want to keep your followers you'd need to migrate before they ban you. But yes, I guess you can start over somewhere else while on big ones you're out forever. So in that sense I guess it is a tiny improvement. But if most of your followers were concentrated on server[s] that don't like you, you may not be able to reach them anymore.

> if most of your followers were concentrated on server[s] that don't like you, you may not be able to reach them anymore

This seems extremely unlikely. If the server admin doesn't like you enough to ban you, I strongly doubt you're going to have many followers there.

In any case, however likely or unlikely it is in practice, the incentives here seem exactly right to me. If you want the benefits of being part of a community, you have to respect its norms in your interactions with others in the community. The possibility of losing connections with people in that community if you are forced to leave it is part of the deal.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#202
Like most people here, I was already aware of the technical side (and I'm guilty of implementing several of the features such as infinite scroll).

The majority of users aren't giving up their addiction. I think that's a given. But I do hope parents are more aware of the effects on children.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I was totally with you until this moment. This is like arguing that people with alcoholism get something out of drinking too much. It’s one thing to say that you’re comfortable with the amount of information that’s collected about you and how it’s used, but how can you ig…

> These apps are absolutely addictive because they were explicitly and intentionally designed to be. Same goes with fast food, TV shows etc. It's your responsibility to not over-consume anything; and if you have children, teach them to not do that as well. The problem is not with FB, Google etc. The problem (which is over-consumption of everything) is cultural. Blaming some specific corporations is easy but it won't…

'Personal responsibility' is often used to inhibit the formation of a consensus for collective action. The people who sell things like fast food or saturate TV with ads are acting collectively to profit themselves, but you're saying that the people who are weary of it should be stoical rather than cooperating among themselves to counter the unwanted behavior.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#204
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some basic rules and regulations would be great :) This should of course not replace taking personal responsibility, but humans are way to easy to influence / hack to leave it entirely to market forces. Some common ground and basic rules is at the very core of any healthy society or community. Speed limits, traffic lights and bike lanes creates great conditions for a healthy marketplace. An absence of regulations ben…

> Some basic rules and regulations would be great :) Any specific ones? I personally can't think of any at all that would work.

I personally can't think of any at all that would work.

This rhetorical technique is called 'poisoning the well,' preemptively injecting doubt into whatever follows. The GP gave several examples of regulatory mechanisms that already work to some degree, and an argument for why, but you chose to ignore that completely for some reason.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#205

Though there was hardly anything that I didn't already know , I liked the movie very much for its presentation that drove the point well to people who may not have understood how these platforms work, the privacy implications and the dangers therein. I've already recommended this movie to some more people. As for the cultural impact of the movie, I don't think it's going to be much. Cambridge Analytica had so much ne…

I'd slot the documentary right next to others that cover things like the horrors of factory farms, slave labor due to consumerism, etc.: while they can be incredibly moving, the impact on your day-to-day is so intangible that it's quite easy to ignore while making no changes to your habits.

It reminds me of when I was working at a grocery store in Texas (HEB) and they experimented with hanging the cow's corpse that was being butchered in plain view. I guess in an effort to look fresh.

Well, people complained about it. They said that it was gross, and the store went back to butchering before opening. Just looking at meat as pink saran-wrapped blobs that appear on shelves lets people ignore inconvenient truths. And I think we have this type of preference in all parts of our lives from social media to ignoring death itself.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#207
It told me many things I already knew... but it enabled me to summarize them in a new way. Facebook, YouTube, Twitter,etc.. all exist to sell your attention to advertisers. This means they want to keep you on site for as long as possible. The algorithms used find the nearest rabbit hole, and gently push you in that direction. The hole might lead to a new skill, just plain fun, or could be horrible for you and society. They don't care about the effects, they only care about the profits.

Evil isn't the intent, it's just the side effect.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#208

It told me many things I already knew... but it enabled me to summarize them in a new way. Facebook, YouTube, Twitter,etc.. all exist to sell your attention to advertisers. This means they want to keep you on site for as long as possible. The algorithms used find the nearest rabbit hole, and gently push you in that direction. The hole might lead to a new skill, just plain fun, or could be horrible for you and society…

Zuck isn't evil, he just wants to give people what they want and take no responsibility. "If they were not on Facebook they would be on Twitter or Fox News or MSNBC. I might as well get rich instead of someone else."

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#209
post #28

I think what I think about docudramas in general: Hyperbolic. I think the harms of social media are exaggerated, and not entirely unique to social media. I don’t have a problem with Facebook knowing what content I interact with and using that to serve me ads, or content that I want to spend time consuming. I don’t agree with the characterization of publishing or volunteering information (likes, posting photos, profil…

>I don’t agree that belief in pseudoscience, rumor, or superstition is anymore prevalent than it was before social media. I think it’s just more visible to everyone how many people do believe wacky ideas. I think this is a key point. In particular I think educated people (for want of a better term) are often dangerously out of touch with how many people (particularly internationally) don't share their worldview. I re…

Social media doesn't just increase social friction, but creates beneficial network effects for people who share particular views. That's often just harmless fandom or fads, but it can also be deadly serious when the views in question promote political violence.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?

#210
post #40
post #28

I think what I think about docudramas in general: Hyperbolic. I think the harms of social media are exaggerated, and not entirely unique to social media. I don’t have a problem with Facebook knowing what content I interact with and using that to serve me ads, or content that I want to spend time consuming. I don’t agree with the characterization of publishing or volunteering information (likes, posting photos, profil…

>The fact that people spend lots of time on social media just demonstrates that they derive something from it, not that it’s addictive or harmful. I think the point of the movie is to show that it is addictive and harmful and it is built that way intentionally. And it gets worse for younger generations. >Regardless, social media isn’t going to suddenly make me believe the moon landing was fake, so I don’t see it as b…

The truth is that platforms like HN are the worst offenders. While consumption-oriented platforms are clearly consumption-oriented, the addiction from text-based platforms like HN is far more insidious.

People think they're making a difference when they come here, but nothing is happening. They get the dopamine hit of some karma, and replies, but they're in their trench and the other guy is in the other trench and the battle lines aren't moving.

HN is a pretty clever tool. It honeypots entrepreneurs who can't develop so they don't compete with the guys who can develop. The former category, instead of competing¹, talks here about how they can't finish their side projects and how they can't get motivation to work, and other unrelated stuff that is just addictive entrepreneur or tech porn.

This streamlines the experience for doers, who avoid the manipulative trap that is HN, and are busy building product.

¹ Competition is bad. cf. Zero to One

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