Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#201

Post by jroesch » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #91

tagrun wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because in the US, PhD is actually the combination of masters degree (typically 2 years) and PhD (typically 3-4 years) in other countries. At least in sciences, US universities don't typically even offer a MSc program; people can get MSc by enrolling into PhD, which is typically the only available graduate program, and quitting it after completing the coursework.

That isn’t really true either. We don’t receive masters degrees unless we do a gentleman’s withdraw, then it’s only an M Phil. If you come into a PhD program with an MSC, you can still take 8 years to finish, ya, you get to skip some course requirements, but that isn’t where the majority of the time in a PhD goes. MSC’s aren’t offered as much anymore because they had the same problem as PhDs (it could take 4 years to…

Many universities just toss you an MS degree along the way for free in your PhD, but coming in with one has no real effect on your PhD length besides waving some clad requirements. At the end of the day US PhD programs just assume you will do 5 or more years of research, for those looking to be professors this is a boon as many US PhDs skip the postdoc step often required for EU PhDs which are typically 3ish years.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#202

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:14 PM UTC

cossatot wrote: post #149

tagrun wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because in the US, PhD is actually the combination of masters degree (typically 2 years) and PhD (typically 3-4 years) in other countries. At least in sciences, US universities don't typically even offer a MSc program; people can get MSc by enrolling into PhD, which is typically the only available graduate program, and quitting it after completing the coursework.

It depends on the discipline. In the geosciences, MSc degrees are the typical 'working degree'. If you want a job, you basically need one, therefore lots of schools offer them. Most people spend 2-3 years on an MSc and then hopefully get a paper or two out before starting work or going on for a PhD (another 4-8 years). You also have to have a pretty solid thesis to get the MSc so you can't just bow out of a PhD progr…

Oh yes, all my experience is for computer science.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#203

Post by mattkrause » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:14 PM UTC

falcor84 wrote: post #62

fifnir wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has little to no value in industry. So what ? It has great value to history and humankind.

I find that to be a funny statement. Would you actually argue that every single phd has "great value to history and humankind"?

No, of course not. I would argue that:

- Some do, and we're really bad at figuring out which ones the are, especially ahead of time.

- It's a collective effort. Your thesis and my thesis might not be particularly groundbreaking or influential individually, but each one is a tiny step, more or less in the right direction, towards understanding something. It's mostly a myth that "geniuses" make huge leaps forward, while everyone else muddles around. Most ideas are presaged in the literature for a while before someone puts them together and runs with it.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#204

Post by wildmanxx » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:20 PM UTC

My advice to anybody in general would be: Do it. I did a Ph.D. and I had a blast. You need to be in an area of your field that you really like, and over the Ph.D. candidate years you will meet essentially everybody on the planet working on the same stuff, geek out with similarly-minded people in your lab or at conferences around the globe. A Ph.D. widens your view on our field substantially and you feel less like your role in the world is that of a code monkey. Don't do it in the U.S. though, where your position in society is to be a (financially) poor student and often times just being used by your advisor as cheap labor. Do it in a country that has better conditions, like you find all over the place in Europe for example. If you first go to industry, you'll never come back.

My advice to you specifically would be: Don't do it. You seem to dislike academia and your area in particular. A Ph.D. is not an instrument to get better opportunities in industry, except for a very few research-oriented positions. I'm now working in industry as a software engineer, and I'm also having a blast, but the position I have did not require a Ph.D. (I feel like I have a broader understanding of CS than my colleagues do though.)

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#205

Post by randomsearch » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:21 PM UTC

Don’t do it.

A PhD is a massive emotional challenge. Unless you’re 90% enthusiastic/committed from the start I’d strongly recommend against it.

If you really feel regret strongly in the future, you can return. It’s not an irreversible decision.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#206

Post by randomsearch » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

chasedehan wrote: post #164

peterwoerner wrote: post #78

I have a PhD (in mech engineering) and work in industry. My experience was that I basically had to pick up a new physics set and tool set every year as I jumped from algorithm development, to constitutive model development, machine learning, and quantum computing. In all cases they were tackling problems in different areas: new toolset to learn, new math to learn and new physics to learn. I thoroughly enjoy working o…

> Advice: Get a job, the PhD will be waiting for you in 2 years if you decide you want it then. Plus it sounds like you are thinking about getting a PhD because looking for a job is hard. Almost no one who takes that advice returns to get a PhD, the income is too hard to give up and often life moves on which makes it hard to take the financial hit and devote the time. The only way it worked for me was to not need muc…

Almost no one returns, but I don’t think money is the reason.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#207

Post by sjg007 » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

If you want to spend your day working on theorem proving then get a PhD. If not, don't. You may also find another PhD subject you may like more. A PhD opens different doors even though you may still arrive at the same destination. If you are paralyzed in making a decision, you might want to start the PhD and do a summer internships at various companies. Use internships as a way to evaluate a "regular" jobs. BTW this advice doesn't mean you have to stay in this country that you hate. You may be able to get a PhD somewhere you like!

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#208

Post by yanokwa » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC

blacksoil wrote: post #169

yanokwa wrote: post #124

I have a Ph.D. in CS from the University of Washington. I'm glad I did it, but it's not for most people. Academic research is like a marathon and the Ph.D. is like a marathon training program. If you don't want to run a marathon, you probably don't need a marathon training program. Yes, a marathon training program is an interesting and rewarding way to improve your running, but it's very likely you can find equally i…

4 years ago I cold emailed and phoned you to ask for advice regarding PhD program. I followed your advice and ended up not pursuing a PhD. And yeah, I think you're totally right :) so yeah, thanks again for answering my cold-email and willing to have a phone call with me 4 years ago!

And I'm still answering cold emails to this day! Glad I could help and hope you get a chance to pay it forward.

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#209

Post by yanokwa » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:30 PM UTC

adrien-treuille wrote: post #125

yanokwa wrote: post #124

I have a Ph.D. in CS from the University of Washington. I'm glad I did it, but it's not for most people. Academic research is like a marathon and the Ph.D. is like a marathon training program. If you don't want to run a marathon, you probably don't need a marathon training program. Yes, a marathon training program is an interesting and rewarding way to improve your running, but it's very likely you can find equally i…

I have a PhD in CS from the University of Washington too.. and all I can say is that yanokwa is an awesome person. :)

Kind of you to say. You aren't so bad yourself!

Re: Ask HN: Will getting a PhD lead to a more interesting life?

#210

Post by dehrmann » Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #207

If you want to spend your day working on theorem proving then get a PhD. If not, don't. You may also find another PhD subject you may like more. A PhD opens different doors even though you may still arrive at the same destination. If you are paralyzed in making a decision, you might want to start the PhD and do a summer internships at various companies. Use internships as a way to evaluate a "regular" jobs. BTW this…

A PhD also closes some doors because the roles you apply for will tend to be more specialized. Or maybe that's not the direction you want to go, and you have to explain in every HR phone screen for five years "no, I actually want to do x."

In general, the jobs you get if you have a PhD pay somewhat better, but there's fewer of them, and have less flexibility with who you work for and where.