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Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

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Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#201
post #65

If he is in the LA area, he is not far from San Diego. You can get there by bus, inexpensively, by taking local (commuter) buses instead of the Greyhound. I spent over 3 years homeless down there. Here is my blog about resources in San Diego county: http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ The North County is cheaper and has more open land for stealthily camping. I also do freelance writing and one of my ne…

It gives me a weird feeling that you're trying to profit and become rich off of homelessness. But, this is HN so... I guess its to be expected.

I started the blog solely to help keep track of information for myself. I abandoned it for several months when I first left downtown San Diego and went to the north county. I even posted a "Goodbye" post. Then, weirdly, even without updates or any promotion whatsoever, it was getting organic traffic. I discovered this because of the occasional few cents here and there showing up on my Adsense account from the site.

Since the major city and the county have the same name and I was still in the county, I decided to make it a countywide resource to the best of my ability.

It is shockingly hard for a homeless person to find the information they need online. I have had a college class on how to do online search and sometimes have difficulty finding things online so I can get an address and phone number even when I know for a fact they exist.

Most websites for homeless service providers are not intended to be client facing. They are intended to impress potential donors. They typically do a poor job of telling needy individuals what they need to know.

So, there is demand for the info. I assure you, I am not getting rich off of it. One of my Achilles heels is that I like being helpful. So, although this is, sadly, one of the most successful projects I have ever had in terms of traffic and being taken seriously as a valuable resource and making a difference in the world, it has put damn little money in my pocket.

Further, I find it galling that a homeless individual is being criticized for trying to monetize their expertise in the topic. Most of the time, I get this shitty attitude that admitting to being homeless online amounts to me trying to panhandle people. So, in other words, I am homeless, I am not allowed to merit an earned income. I am only allowed to hope for charity and ingratiate myself for crumbs. No matter how I get my money, it is inherently immoral.

And people wonder why my financial problems are proving to be so stubborn, as well as why I have such strong feelings that the wrongly convicted individual we are discussing should be allowed to pursue an income that doesn't involve making a spectacle of his misfortune.

But, this is HN so...I guess it's to be expected.

(And I say "sadly" it is one of my most successful projects in part because homelessness is on the rise nationwide. The general rise in homelessness is part of why there is demand for the info. In my case, "getting rich" would mean what? Getting off the street? How dare I aspire to such self indulgence and selfishness when there are poorer homeless people than I.)

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#202

> A year ago, I saw a Dateline NBC episode about an Iraq-war vet, Sgt. Ray Jennings, who allegedly killed an 18-year-old girl in a parking lot. The evidence didn't persuade me, so my dad and I started our own investigation. You're amazing! I donate to The Innocence Project, because I think putting innocent people into jail is just about the worst thing you can do to someone short of rape/kill them.

Indeed, and then when you look a little deeper and realize that the goals of the "Justice" system are essentially to "prosecute and convict" as many people as possible and the people who prosecute are almost 100% protected from anything bad they do as long as they are chasing those goals

And then realize that even if it becomes obvious that someone is (or most likely is) innocent or has been pushed into a plea deal to avoid an even longer sentence for something they didn't do

You just want to puke

Somehow the ideals of justice got thrown out somewhere here in the US

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#203
post #178

It's also responsible for the destruction of Iraq and the emergence of ISIS. Are you really proud that your personal success rides on the back of so many innocent lives being lost?

Did he say he was? He said the army gave him valuable training and experience, not that he agrees with everything the country's leadership has chosen to do with it.

Don't feed the troll!

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#205
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, was there one piece of evidence that really proved he couldn't have done it? I read a bunch of it, and it sounds like you can't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt, but that he still might have done it (meaning, there just isn't much to go on).

Your comment might be read to imply that he shouldn't be exonerated unless proven innocent, but giving the benefit of the doubt I expect you're just wondering whether the evidence does in fact prove innocence, or whether it was simply shown not to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt (both of which should result in exoneration). I'm curious myself.

I know and agree he should be exonerated if the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard can't be reached. I was just curious if there was some evidence that showed that he was factually innocent.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#206
post #83

Since you're in Los Angeles, you might try reaching out to Homeboy Industries: http://www.homeboyindustries.org/ They specialize in helping get folks back on their feet with job training. They have a bakery program, a line of salsa, solar panel installation training, etc. They hire ex-gang and previously incarcerated men and women. Disclosure: I have enjoyed the salsa.

I'm a big fan of Homeboy Industries, so I appreciate the suggestion. But I don't think it's fair to put Ray into a program for ex-gang members. Ray is a clean-cut, straight-arrow kind of guy, so it's been very hard for him to spend the last 11 years of his life surrounded by actual criminals. He really wants to become just another person — not an ex-con.

You may want to consider contacting the innocence project: http://www.innocenceproject.org

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big fan of Homeboy Industries, so I appreciate the suggestion. But I don't think it's fair to put Ray into a program for ex-gang members. Ray is a clean-cut, straight-arrow kind of guy, so it's been very hard for him to spend the last 11 years of his life surrounded by actual criminals. He really wants to become just another person — not an ex-con.

Look, you've really gone above and beyond here. I think that's awesome. But it's a bit of a drag to see you write off "ex-gang members" the way that you did. These are human beings that deserve your respect. If someone does their time and holds down a job, what's not to admire? Your man was a soldier and he survived 11 years in prison as an innocent man. I suspect that he'd really enjoy meeting the folks at Homeboy e…

I value what Homeboy Industries is doing and I respect the people who are participating in their programs and trying to turn their lives around. I wish them nothing but success.

That said, it isn't a normal job training program. If you had a friend with no criminal record who was looking for work, I doubt you send him to Homeboy Industries in order to get job training.

Ray was in prison, but he isn't someone trying to turn his life around after falling in with gangs or crime. He was a Sergeant in the U.S. military who had his freedom taken for no reason.

He has just been forced to spend 11 years of his life with people from backgrounds that led them into the criminal-justice system. Some of them are good people, others are not. But none of them came from the same circumstances as Ray, a man who risked his life for our country and never did anything to society for which he needs to atone.

I will certainly tell him about Homeboy Industries and let him make his own decisions. But I think it's totally reasonable if, after being forced to spend 11 years surrounded by convicts, he now chooses to seek out situations where he will be able to spend time around "normal" folks.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, you've really gone above and beyond here. I think that's awesome. But it's a bit of a drag to see you write off "ex-gang members" the way that you did. These are human beings that deserve your respect. If someone does their time and holds down a job, what's not to admire? Your man was a soldier and he survived 11 years in prison as an innocent man. I suspect that he'd really enjoy meeting the folks at Homeboy e…

I value what Homeboy Industries is doing and I respect the people who are participating in their programs and trying to turn their lives around. I wish them nothing but success. That said, it isn't a normal job training program. If you had a friend with no criminal record who was looking for work, I doubt you send him to Homeboy Industries in order to get job training. Ray was in prison, but he isn't someone trying t…

This is something I understand completely. My "crime" was being born with the wrong genes. My genetic disorder has closed a lot of doors for me, in spite of my strong academic background. I also think many programs to help such people do a lot of things inherently badly, so are often a bad idea, even if you need reform. My experience with homelessness has been that a lot of programs can be really detrimental to one's long term success.

I already left links to a couple of my sites in another comment. I will also suggest panning for gold as a potential path forward. You can set your own hours. The only human interaction required is finding a buyer, and I know an online site if he is interested. It can pay decently.

I don't quite know what else to say. It has been a long day and I am tired. If he is interested, I would rather discuss it (panning for gold) further privately.

You are doing a good thing. Unfortunately, most people you speak with will not see what you see: That he doesn't need reform because his life was stolen from him. Most people just won't really get it. So, trying to find good answers will be challenging.

My hat is off to you.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#209
post #177

I don't understand why there's such unanimous words of support for someone who directly contributed to the half million deaths in the Iraq war. I know it's unrelated to his case, but perhaps his prison sentence and current predicament can be seen as karmic retribution. I know that's not how justice works, but I don't think we'd see such enthusiastic support for a serial killer who had trouble supporting himself after…

Maybe you will experience some "karmic retribution" for rationalizing an innocent man's wrongful imprisonment and equating Ray with a "serial killer."

Ray enlisted in the Army National Guard in the 90s when he was 17. Do you think that was morally reprehensible? If not, when did he lose your respect and sympathy?

He followed orders to deploy to Iraq once the United States had already invaded the country and deposed its government. The missions he carried out were intended to find bombmakers who were indiscriminately slaughtering civilians and soldiers with IEDs.

He never took the life of a single Iraqi. His main priority was ensuring that the young men under his command came back alive to their families in the United States. Was that not a task that justified his presence and his best efforts?

Individual soldiers are not in a position to judge the merits of foreign military interventions. They do not have access to the intelligence that political leaders rely on in order to make those decisions. A military can only function when soldiers fulfill their responsibility to carry out all lawful orders.

The responsibility for holding our political leaders accountable for improper military interventions falls on the PEOPLE of the United States, not the soldiers who have taken an oath to serve their commander in chief.

Equating an average American soldier serving in Iraq with a Nazi war criminal is not only disgusting but counterproductive. It erases the moral culpability of the latter for willfully carrying out genocide.

The Iraq war was a horrifying mistake. But our leaders' misjudgment doesn't entitle you to slander the names of the men and women who risked (and gave) their lives in that conflict.

Re: Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

#210
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I can't talk about them because it's part of an active investigation.

Also, was there one piece of evidence that really proved he couldn't have done it? I read a bunch of it, and it sounds like you can't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt, but that he still might have done it (meaning, there just isn't much to go on).

1. There was no evidence of Ray's guilt. Zero. Nada. Every single accusation is refuted point-by-point in our letter to the DA's office, which I invite you to read.

2. There was physical evidence that directly exonerated Ray, including the the negative results of the gunshot residue test on his uniform, and the absence of pseudo-stipling on his pants.

3. There was overwhelming circumstantial evidence pointing to Ray's innocence. For example, the prosecution could never explain why he would have brought an unregistered 9mm firearm to work in the first place. Nor could they explain why, after committing the murder, he would have stayed at the scene and called the police.

4. There is significant evidence pointing to the guilt of a different individual, which will be revealed once the current active investigation is finished.

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