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Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

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Re: Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

#21

Post by Silhouette »

borski wrote: post #18

This is standard practice in most default employment contracts, including literally every single one I've signed as an employee. It's in our employer contract too, and we've all signed it. I usually include, as one of the disclosed items, something along the lines of "other open source or business ideas I may come up with or have come up with on personal time and while using personal, non-company, property." One of o…

This is standard practice in most default employment contracts

Where I come from, it is also fairly standard practice for anyone who is any good at all to seek to amend such loaded terms before signing the contract. Just because it's in the default contract that the company lawyers wrote, that doesn't mean you have to actually accept it unchallenged.

Re: Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

#22

Post by pvg »

This paperwork is standard. The company wants to protect itself against a scenario in which you, after being steeped in its business, come up with some way to do it better/more efficiently/cheaper but claim the idea came to you while you were at home in the shower and thus they have no rights to it. Your out is the form that lists the 'inventions' you might have that you want excluded from this clause. You can always add to it later, too, should you come up with something that is unrelated to your employer's business that you want to work on yourself as long as you and the employer can agree it doesn't interfere with your full-time duties as an employee. Usually, all of this is a formality - just keep the paperwork up to date when needed. I don't think your new employer is trying to screw you.

Re: Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

#23

Post by protomyth »

chvid wrote: post #15
chvid wrote: post #13

Talk to a labor union.

:-) Why the down votes? This is a serious suggestion; I don't know the exact situation in America but in Europe all trade unions have trained advisers looking at stuff like this every day. Going to an union is a much more effective and cheaper solution than every employee talking to an employment lawyer on their own.

Didn't down vote [edit: upvoted], but it doesn't quite work that way in the US for any of the unions that would cover developers, good info for Europe though.

Re: Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

#24

Post by jsudhams »

ExhibitAClause2 wrote: post #7
functional_test wrote: post #2

Find an employment attorney. Pay that person for an hour or two to read the contract for you. They will be able to offer much better advice than HN.

Whats the best way to go about finding one on short notice in a generic major city?

Indian Lawyers but can verify generic legal language and quick to respond typically with in an hour for about US$20.

https://www.kaanoon.com/

Re: Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

#25

Post by borski »

Silhouette wrote: post #21
borski wrote: post #18

This is standard practice in most default employment contracts, including literally every single one I've signed as an employee. It's in our employer contract too, and we've all signed it. I usually include, as one of the disclosed items, something along the lines of "other open source or business ideas I may come up with or have come up with on personal time and while using personal, non-company, property." One of o…

This is standard practice in most default employment contracts Where I come from, it is also fairly standard practice for anyone who is any good at all to seek to amend such loaded terms before signing the contract. Just because it's in the default contract that the company lawyers wrote, that doesn't mean you have to actually accept it unchallenged.

Yes, that's also true. It doesn't mean the company will accept the redlines or spend their counsel's time dealing with it, but completely appropriate to try and challenge it.

Re: Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

#26

Post by jt2190 »

functional_test wrote: post #2

Find an employment attorney. Pay that person for an hour or two to read the contract for you. They will be able to offer much better advice than HN.

There's some very good discussion about IP rights in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2208056

Re: Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

#27

Post by Silhouette »

pvg wrote: post #22

This paperwork is standard. The company wants to protect itself against a scenario in which you, after being steeped in its business, come up with some way to do it better/more efficiently/cheaper but claim the idea came to you while you were at home in the shower and thus they have no rights to it. Your out is the form that lists the 'inventions' you might have that you want excluded from this clause. You can always…

This paperwork is standard.

I strongly disagree. It's not unusual for a new employer to try to pull a fast one here, but IME the actual standard among reasonable employers and employees involves wording like "in the course of your employment" or the local equivalent. In short, what you do on company time, with company resources, or in connection with your work at the company is theirs, but anything else is yours by default. This sort of arrangement protects their interests just fine without granting them unnecessary and unreasonable control over their employees' lives outside work, at which point whether the employer is trying to screw the employee on this or not is academic because they have no contractual ability to do so.

Re: Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

#28

Post by mwfunk »

chvid wrote: post #15
chvid wrote: post #13

Talk to a labor union.

:-) Why the down votes? This is a serious suggestion; I don't know the exact situation in America but in Europe all trade unions have trained advisers looking at stuff like this every day. Going to an union is a much more effective and cheaper solution than every employee talking to an employment lawyer on their own.

I know that labor unions are much more widespread in Europe than they are in the US these days, but that's all I really know about the European situation. Still, are things THAT much different in Europe? Honest question. I just can't imagine that they'd give free legal advice to nonmembers, or that there would be a lot of expertise in this specific area of employment law. Or is that not true? Maybe I've been biased by the labor climate in the US, but that's just not how I thought things worked in (most of) Europe.

Re: Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

#29

Post by olefoo »

Remember that this contract is a negotiable agreement.

You can strike clauses and file an amended agreement, they can refuse to accept such things; but you are not obligated to sign unless they are compensating you adequately for what you are giving up. Approach this as an equal; decide what _you_ are willing to put up with. Nobody on this forum can tell you what you can and cannot live with.

Do figure out your BATNA at this time.

Re: Ask HN: Company got acquired, new contract seems oppressive

#30

Post by bgia »

Silhouette wrote: post #21
borski wrote: post #18

This is standard practice in most default employment contracts, including literally every single one I've signed as an employee. It's in our employer contract too, and we've all signed it. I usually include, as one of the disclosed items, something along the lines of "other open source or business ideas I may come up with or have come up with on personal time and while using personal, non-company, property." One of o…

This is standard practice in most default employment contracts Where I come from, it is also fairly standard practice for anyone who is any good at all to seek to amend such loaded terms before signing the contract. Just because it's in the default contract that the company lawyers wrote, that doesn't mean you have to actually accept it unchallenged.

Where do you come from?
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