Ask HN: Getting stressed out moonlighting • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Getting stressed out moonlighting

#21

Post by midnightmonster » Wed, May 27, 2015, 9:03 PM UTC

sinnet11 wrote: post #20

blt wrote: post #18

I was in your exact situation. My day job at the time was very fulfilling. I only took the moonlighting gig for money. I hated it - it was a web design job and I'm a research/algorithms/systems person. I ended up spending way more than my billable hours procrastinating and stressing about the gig. My effective wage was shit. I didn't have free time to do stuff I enjoy. I was young. I bailed hard and burned bridges. I…

Were you ever worried about your reputation?

If you're in the position of being able to refund any money you have received for which you didn't already clearly deliver whatever you promised, you can walk away with reputation in a pretty good place.

E.g., I got in way, way over my head on a project for a startup once a few years ago. They didn't know what they needed, and I had no true idea how much work was involved. When I couldn't deliver I returned the money (which hurt, but I could do it). The client later came back to me (!) with a much smaller, better-defined project which I executed on well. They became a regular client and have been worth six figures to me over the years. (It did help that they tried another developer in the meantime who also didn't deliver but kept the money and stopped returning calls.)

Re: Ask HN: Getting stressed out moonlighting

#22

Post by jhildings » Wed, May 27, 2015, 10:11 PM UTC

spotman wrote: post #15

midnightmonster wrote: post #14

Suppose I call a plumber over to fix my sink, and I say, "Hey, I've also started building a guest house out back--I'd like the interior plumbing run and the whole building connected to the city water. Can you get started on that, too?" The plumber could say: A) Let me schedule a time to come back and look at that and give you an estimate. B) We just do repairs, not new construction. [Let me give you the card of my fr…

Agreed. If you are going to be a healthy (to yourself) consultant, you have to learn the art of saying no. I used to be very paranoid about saying no. I actually recall the first time I did. I was running very low on sleep, and had been for some time. I needed a breather, but I just couldn't risk losing my reputation for always-being-there-and-always-getting-it-done. After I (politely, but firmly) said no for the fir…

Also, it's better to say no to scope creep and at least deliver something to the client on time that fits the description than to say yes to more and deliver late and not with quality

Re: Ask HN: Getting stressed out moonlighting

#23

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, May 28, 2015, 4:07 AM UTC

Mike Monteiro - "Fuck you pay me"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h3RJhoqgK8

See his comments on contracts, starting generally at 7m 20s

Scope creep is included. Renegotiate. It's a new project.

Re: Ask HN: Getting stressed out moonlighting

#24

Post by pyre » Thu, May 28, 2015, 4:28 AM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #13

colinbartlett wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say this is the key to reducing stress. Just expectations that you can easily meet on your terms. If you can't meet them, don't take them on and find another client you can satisfy. There certainly are clients and projects out there who are willing to deal with longer turn arounds in exchange for a lower price. And everyone is happy.

No. Once you started trading longer turn arounds for a lower price, clients will use any further delay to lower the price further while it often actually should go up (if you count your hours, you're probably spending more to get those delays).

I don't think that anyone is advocating lowering the price in response to requirements changes, etc. I think the idea is that the initial price might be lower.

Re: Ask HN: Getting stressed out moonlighting

#25

Post by tluyben2 » Thu, May 28, 2015, 9:40 AM UTC

pyre wrote: post #24

tluyben2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Once you started trading longer turn arounds for a lower price, clients will use any further delay to lower the price further while it often actually should go up (if you count your hours, you're probably spending more to get those delays).

I don't think that anyone is advocating lowering the price in response to requirements changes, etc. I think the idea is that the initial price might be lower.

Well, he literally says longer turnaround for a lower price. I don't see why you would lower the price for a longer turnaround? I know people do do it, but, because it makes no sense usually (there are ofcourse exceptions here and there), it often ends negatively for 'the provider'.

Re: Ask HN: Getting stressed out moonlighting

#26

Post by colinbartlett » Thu, May 28, 2015, 10:55 AM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #25

pyre wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that anyone is advocating lowering the price in response to requirements changes, etc. I think the idea is that the initial price might be lower.

Well, he literally says longer turnaround for a lower price. I don't see why you would lower the price for a longer turnaround? I know people do do it, but, because it makes no sense usually (there are ofcourse exceptions here and there), it often ends negatively for 'the provider'.

I did not mean changing the price in the middle of a project. I meant finding clients with needs and expectations that fit well with yours. For example, one of my long-time clients has very flexible production schedules and I am willing to give him a reduced rate for that because I can fill his project in when I have time.

Re: Ask HN: Getting stressed out moonlighting

#27

Post by Gustomaximus » Thu, May 28, 2015, 11:17 AM UTC

Yep. Things helped me is to set some boundaries to ensure I do get some downtime. Also I select work that is more time flexible. Eg I do marketing so I prefer to get strategy/advertising/lead generation type gigs where I can work evening hours and not have to be on call. I avoid website development work, as much as I like that, it requires me to project mange people and be on call at short notice. Not sure how that translates in developer world, but it seems scope creep is the bigger issue for you, not the original job. A bit part is probably increasing the billing at a rate that motivates you for every extra component the client adds. It will also make them think about what they ask for more carefully than clients who just add random ideas.