It all boils down to the license - open source means jack all.
Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?
21–30 of 55 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?
#22Of course it is – you've got this back to front. The grant of additional rights to use any patent Facebook may hold is an additional benefit and in no way places any restriction on you. If you're going to worry about anything, worry about the squillions of open-source projects that don't include any patent grants. But you probably shouldn't worry about that either.
Most open-source projects' owners and contributors don't have any patents to enforce, thus can't grant anything. The rest tend to be less chilling than the clause that Facebook uses - there's no "we'll only grant you this if you promise never to mention that any of our patents might be invalid".
Are you certain that Facebook doesn't have any patents that cover any of its open-source software?
Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?
#23No. The license has a chilling clause that says if you ever suggest that any Facebook patent might be invalid, your license to use their code is automatically revoked. And in corporate world, that means any comment of any of your employees in an official capacity. Edit downvotes, well maybe the text of the clause will help > The license granted hereunder will terminate, automatically and without notice, for anyone th…
Thanks for sharing this. It brings up some interesting questions. Does this mean React cannot be used by European government agencies since they claim (via law) that patents are not enforcable? What if I merely live in the EU and thus implicitly agree to the laws in Europw. Does that fall under "other action" or would I have to explicitly state that I think their patents are not enforceable. What if I have actively p…
> What if I merely live in the EU and thus implicitly agree to the laws in Europw. Does that fall under "other action" or would I have to explicitly state that I think their patents are not enforceable.
It doesn't matter. If their patents aren't valid where you live, you don't need their patent grant.
Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for sharing this. It brings up some interesting questions. Does this mean React cannot be used by European government agencies since they claim (via law) that patents are not enforcable? What if I merely live in the EU and thus implicitly agree to the laws in Europw. Does that fall under "other action" or would I have to explicitly state that I think their patents are not enforceable. What if I have actively p…
> What if I merely live in the EU and thus implicitly agree to the laws in Europw. Does that fall under "other action" or would I have to explicitly state that I think their patents are not enforceable. It doesn't matter. If their patents aren't valid where you live, you don't need their patent grant.
If I live where I do and thus could be said to agree with the fact that their patents cannot be enforced here it still matters if I want to use it for software that is used elsewhere.
The way I read it I could be constructed as claiming their patents are not enforcable here and thus the grant would be revoked in countries where I'd need it (not here).
Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?
#25There is no way to be safe from patents. Anyone could have them, they don't have to declare them, and they're written in deliberately obtuse ways so that you have no way of finding relevant patents before you're sued for infringing them (you don't have to have copied, or even be aware of, any patented thing to violate a patent). It's just a hazard of the software industry. The BSD license says nothing about patents,…
FYI my favorite patent ever is from Facebook:
"A social networking system user may associate an emoji representing the user's emotional reaction with a content item presented by the social networking system. The user is presented with one or more emoji maintained by the social networking system and selects an emoji for associating with the content item."
[1] http://www.google.com.ar/patents/US8918339
That's right folks, they patented using the emoji to respond to content.
Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?
#26There is no way to be safe from patents. Anyone could have them, they don't have to declare them, and they're written in deliberately obtuse ways so that you have no way of finding relevant patents before you're sued for infringing them (you don't have to have copied, or even be aware of, any patented thing to violate a patent). It's just a hazard of the software industry. The BSD license says nothing about patents,…
"You could develop a library in-house in a clean room and it could still infringe someone else's patent."
IANAL, but, it is my understanding that if that's the case the patent wouldn't hold up to the novel requirement.
Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?
#27There is no way to be safe from patents. Anyone could have them, they don't have to declare them, and they're written in deliberately obtuse ways so that you have no way of finding relevant patents before you're sued for infringing them (you don't have to have copied, or even be aware of, any patented thing to violate a patent). It's just a hazard of the software industry. The BSD license says nothing about patents,…
"You could develop a library in-house in a clean room and it could still infringe someone else's patent." IANAL, but, it is my understanding that if that's the case the patent wouldn't hold up to the novel requirement.
Novelty at the time, perhaps? You might be thinking of "non-obvious" but just because two people invented something doesn't make it obvious. More importantly, though, once the patent is granted it doesn't matter, you're in violation. That it shouldn't have been granted in the first place is a separate issue, and one that almost nobody is going to spend the time and money on to sue for a change.
Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?
#28There is no way to be safe from patents. Anyone could have them, they don't have to declare them, and they're written in deliberately obtuse ways so that you have no way of finding relevant patents before you're sued for infringing them (you don't have to have copied, or even be aware of, any patented thing to violate a patent). It's just a hazard of the software industry. The BSD license says nothing about patents,…
"You could develop a library in-house in a clean room and it could still infringe someone else's patent." IANAL, but, it is my understanding that if that's the case the patent wouldn't hold up to the novel requirement.
You're thinking of reverse engineering.
Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?
#29There is no way to be safe from patents. Anyone could have them, they don't have to declare them, and they're written in deliberately obtuse ways so that you have no way of finding relevant patents before you're sued for infringing them (you don't have to have copied, or even be aware of, any patented thing to violate a patent). It's just a hazard of the software industry. The BSD license says nothing about patents,…
FYI my favorite patent ever is from Facebook: "A social networking system user may associate an emoji representing the user's emotional reaction with a content item presented by the social networking system. The user is presented with one or more emoji maintained by the social networking system and selects an emoji for associating with the content item." [1] http://www.google.com.ar/patents/US8918339 That's right fol…
Actually, if you RTFClaims (which is the first thing you should read), they patented asking for payment for using emoji to respond to content. Which is ridiculous from a business perspective as well.
Re: Ask HN: Is it safe to use Facebook's open source projects?
#30Pardon my ignorance, but isn't this just equivalent to Apache's patent retaliation clause?[0][1] [0] http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Patent_clauses_in_software_licences... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patents_and_free_softw...
The events that trigger Apache License 2.0 patent termination are much narrower: "If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to You under this License for that Work shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed."