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Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#21
post #10

> with the boom in startups lately, a degree is seldom necessary This is true. What do you do when the boom ends though? Companies went through layoffs in 2008, in 2000-2001, in the early 1990s etc. What will you do once you're married with kids, laid off and then any job opening available needs a college diploma. Yes, you're OK for the next year. Will you survive the next downturn though, and the one after that? > I…

I think you woefully underestimate how many people are learning CS without being told to. I took Jeff Ullman's automata course on Coursera and so have many, many others. MIT's OCW classes have also been used by people doing entire CS degrees. Back when I was at my previous job I was doing to the same for another degree.

I've heard these arguments before and to be honest, they remind me a lot of when I moved to Taiwan as a young adult. It seemed there were always people telling me how foreigners couldn't learn Chinese "properly" without doing college courses...right up until it started becoming common about five years ago. Now language learning is practically a sport amongst autodidacts.

The credential from a degree is an edge, but in terms of actual education, schooling is hardly the optimal approach.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#22

Sounds like marketing and psychology could prove very useful in the long term. And a CS degree is great to cleanup the hands-on experience you have. So based on what you described, I'd say: yes, continue your degree.

Like it or not, sooner or later you need to interact with "real people" and in that area a bit of psychology and marketing smarts can pay off.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#24
post #16
post #14

I believe the CS degree is one of the least useful degrees there is. The two things most people get from a degree are the knowledge and the credential. The material in a CS degree is pretty accessible for self study compared to that of some other majors. No expensive materials are required beyond a $500 computer. Instructors don't generally spend time with you while you are actually programming, so you won't be missi…

>The material in a CS degree is pretty accessible for self study Whether or not it is, I have yet to meet anyone who has done self study who has studied theory of computation, mutual exclusion, and that sort of stuff, month on end, like CS students do. Everyone seems to go straight to what is immediately useful, like the syntax of Objective C and so forth. Also, the big technological leap allowing this was the Gutenb…

>I have yet to meet anyone who has done self study who has studied theory of computation, mutual exclusion, and that sort of stuff, month on end, like CS students do.

Now you have :) Ullman's Automata course was my favorites: https://www.coursera.org/course/automata

I find the MIT OCW superior to MOOCs for multi-course sequences, btw. If you want to do a full degree, use OCW. Coursera/edX auto graders are great for classes with programming assignments, but since there are so many classes from so many schools prereqs are a problem. If you're interested I wrote this comparison of the options late last year: http://logicmason.com/2013/self-directed-programming-and-com...

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#25
In order to secure a good job you need a great portfolio that shows that you have the aptitude and talent required for the job.

As long as you are willing to continue learning and keeping pace with technology (iOS could wane or you could lose interest) you should continue to be in demand.

BTW even if you got your degree, you would still need to keep up to date. I've seen too many people who stop learning as soon as they graduate. They end up in management sooner or later.

If you are able to get consulting jobs that you like now, then I doubt that getting the degree is going to get you better jobs or more money.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#26
As you may have realized, any adult older than forty went through college back when it was lots cheaper and students routinely graduated with job offers in hand. You may be wise to discount our advice.

I wouldn't spend fifty or a hundred thousand dollars slogging through a major that you hate, in exchange for a reward that you can't see yet. Take a break for a while and get that full-time iOS developer job that you crave. Work for a while, save every penny you can, and await future developments.

When circumstances change, and iOS developers become as commonplace as Java developers are today, or the economy cools off for a while, or you find yourself jammed against a career ceiling, or you become bored out of your mind in your little cubicle, or you grow a little older and suddenly realize that your dream is to become a computational molecular biologist with an art studio: College will still be there. Believe me, even when you're forty and fifty colleges will still happily take your money. (Although I was once warned that medical schools don't admit students older than thirty-five, so don't wait too long to become a heart surgeon.)

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#27
post #10

> with the boom in startups lately, a degree is seldom necessary This is true. What do you do when the boom ends though? Companies went through layoffs in 2008, in 2000-2001, in the early 1990s etc. What will you do once you're married with kids, laid off and then any job opening available needs a college diploma. Yes, you're OK for the next year. Will you survive the next downturn though, and the one after that? > I…

> When time gets tough and Craigslist job postings start saying "BSCS required", an e-mail from you saying that you have "kept up with individuals that have over 15 years of experience in the field with degrees" is not going to mean much. They'll be knee-deep in resumes of people who have a BSCS. Yours will go right to the waste bin, in many cases.

You're only as good as your last record. Who cares what anyone was doing 15 years ago? The degree you got when you were 22 is the same as the trophy won by the school's quarterback: an old nostalgic story at best. It's not who you are today, and I hope you've done far more interesting things since then. I only look at the past couple of positions a person had on their resume anyway.

Even if HR does operate the way you say, I hope we can all agree it's pretty stupid.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#28
I'm 24 & had to make a similar decision to you. I had a full-time job offer in a startup when I was 19, 2 years through my CS degree. I decided to stop university & work.

I rarely think about going back, my work experience & portfolio of actually building products has entirely outweighed the "piece of paper". I'm in a SF startup now, on a very good salary for my age & I have years of experience now. It has never been a deciding-factor in landing jobs.

That said, if you want to work at the big corporates (Google, Apple etc etc), I would imagine this is where you would need it. Also, if you are not from the US, having a degree is pretty much essential to getting a work visa.

Devs are in such demand, particularly in SF/The Valley, that I truly believe a degree would always be overlooked for actual experience. As other posters mentioned, there are CS degrees on Coursera etc now that you could still continue to study for free in your spare time.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#29
How long before you are completely, utterly outsourceable?

I don't know why you think business and marketing are useless. I'm a programmer, and had more than one conversation today on how to market our product. Most technical decisions depend on business decisions. I don't make the business ones, but I have to know when the business folks are missing something (it is more common for tech types to know business than vice versa) and inform them.

I need linear algebra. I need statistics. I need physics. I need algorithms and optimizations. I need to understand DCF. It goes on and on. I'm taking time out tonight from reading a pretty heavy math book to answer this. Learning will never, ever stop.

All of that must be caveated by the quality of your school. Some schools will set you up to be able to do anything you want in the field for the next several decades. A bad one, well, good luck. I wouldn't waste the money if you are at the latter.

Re: Ask HN: Is it worth continuing my computer science degree?

#30
post #18

> Recently I was choosing my courses for second year and became discouraged at the electives required to continue in the computer science program. I'm forced to take things that don't interest me like psychology, basic marketing, etc. This made me question whether it is even worth spending the money to get a degree when half of the work that I put in won't even be relating to my field. Well now it depends. Do you wan…

You're making the assumption that psychology classes teach you how people think, and that marketing classes teach you how to generate sales - they don't. If he was still interested, he could just buy the textbooks, or more likely, get similar resources for free online.
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