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Ask HN: Hot & Useful software skills for novice converts?

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Re: Ask HN: Hot & Useful software skills for novice converts?

#21

Post by hopeless »

div wrote: post #17
simplegeek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a QA at a startup and I don't think it sucks. I really enjoy my job and I think it requires variety of skills. In order for you to really excel at QA, you need to know a thing or two about programming, databases, client-side scripting( JavaScript in my case), usability, TDD and etc. This whole combination makes it really interesting. Can you share your experience or opinion on why you think it stinks?

Can't speak for the parent, but from my experience, most developers think QA stinks because they have had to do it on the side. If you have to do it on the side, you usually don't have time to do it properly and write tests / scripts or do coding stuff in general, you are simply reduced to doing rote testing. Rote testing stinks.

My experience, as a developer in huge multinational that has been involuntary moved into QA: it sucks. You might need sysadmin skills but not dev skills. You don't get to solve the problems, just identify them. If you do overstep the boundaries by suggesting a solution, you'll quickly be put back in your place. And lastly, although the automation carrot is often dangled the deadlines are always tighter than the human resources for manual testing so you'll just have to test it over and over and over again.

Re: Ask HN: Hot & Useful software skills for novice converts?

#22

Post by pj »

blasdel wrote: post #20
pj wrote: post #7

Okay, so here again is an opportunity for me to talk about my company, but I will try to avoid it. Here's the deal. The web is the future. So for application domain -- the web is where it is at. And the web includes mobile. Mobile devices are web devices. The whole point of the web was to enable mobility in a standard protocol -- mobility of information, digestion of information and communication of information betwe…

> to narrow it down even more, go with JavaScript. It's a lot like Java, which is a lot like C# You are high as a kite.

Wow, well that was a great rebuttal. Perhaps you should review logical fallacies. If you'd like to disagree with what I say, attack what I say, not me.

Re: Ask HN: Hot & Useful software skills for novice converts?

#23

Post by alexgartrell »

simplegeek wrote: post #10
alexgartrell wrote: post #4

Their prospects are going to kind of suck at first. If I were to do a crash course, I'd say: Java/C# Code Complete/related software engineering books Eclipse/Visual Studio svn/cvs You'll notice that there's nothing overly exciting there. I think it's most important for them to get the standard set of skills that'll give them the best chance of working in software development. That means the boring stuff that most peo…

I'm a QA at a startup and I don't think it sucks. I really enjoy my job and I think it requires variety of skills. In order for you to really excel at QA, you need to know a thing or two about programming, databases, client-side scripting( JavaScript in my case), usability, TDD and etc. This whole combination makes it really interesting. Can you share your experience or opinion on why you think it stinks?

Well first off, i'm sorry for that off the cuff comment. I didn't mean to downplay the importance of QA (the world would suck without it, for sure) nor the importance of QA positions. It just isn't development, which was what I was looking to do. I agree very much with Joel Spolsky's thoughts on the subject. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000067.html

As to my story, I was placed into QA in the "choice" program because they misrepresented the role (it was an internship). The skills required listed C programmer, but on the first day, I was told there would be no programming.

The first few weeks I configured test beds. This was a lot of installation of server stuff (mostly following check lists) and configuration of networks. This was very IT'ish, and though important (and it sparked my interest in how exactly networks work, which I followed up on my own time), it wasn't what I was hoping for.

I got into automated testing shortly thereafter because they needed someone to do it and I had a lot of programming experience. I coded in Java using an IBM testing thing and a company framework provided by another QA person. This framework was buggy and _completely_ undocumented. In one place, there were 14 nested If/For's. There were obvious design flaws. Not only that, the person who wrote it was wholly unavailable (constantly busy). She did find time to do reviews when I only had an hour left in the internship to respond to them. Ironically, one complaint was that I recreated her functionality in some parts (if only I'd KNOWN about it!)

So, in short, my experience dictates that QA in large organizations means people that don't give a crap and do the bare minimum. I don't know if this is a QA problem or a large corporation problem, but no thanks to either.

Re: Ask HN: Hot & Useful software skills for novice converts?

#25

Post by kleintjie »

Try and learn the basics of good software design. These inlcude and not limited to: Design patterns, OO concepts, separation of concerns, testing to name a few.

In addition, it a good idea to havea clear understanding of different software methodologies (waterfall vs agile)

The programming laguage is important but at the end of the day its just a tool. Good design in software is what serparates great developers from the rest of the pack, meaning they have less stress, go home on time and generally always have good paying work :)

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