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Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

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Re: Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

#21

Post by starter »

scdoshi wrote: post #19

It really depends on whether you want to outsource development or actually want a remote (but in house) dev team in India. Most comments here are already inherently considering the remote team to be code monkeys who will churn out software based on specs. There is no magic here, to get good code, you need devs who are invested in the idea, and not second class citizens in the company. Invest the same amount of resour…

You hit it, thanks! Not interested in outsourcing, per say. My goal would be to leverage low market wages in India by setting up a foreign office with it's own management etc.

How far above average pay do you think I would have to go?

Re: Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

#22

Post by starter »

RealGeek wrote: post #13

I am original from India (now in New York), and I have hired over 40 developers, designers and marketers in New Delhi over the past few years. You can hire good developers in India for $1,000 to $2,000 per month. It is viable to hire team in India, but hiring and managing them remotely is a nightmare. Remote teams in India are unreliable and not committed. In India, you need hustle with your team to get shit done. Th…

Thanks for the tip! Isn't $1-2k per month pretty high for direct pay? My estimate for starting salaries was substantially lower.

Re: Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

#23

Post by starter »

penguinlinux wrote: post #18
porlw wrote: post #17

Don't forget (and this applies to any outsourcing contract, anywhere in the world), the first people you encounter will be the A-grade talent. Once the project kicks off the they will one-by-one be moved off to the next deal, and replaced with less experienced juniors and trainees. You can try to contractually lock in particular people, but that's impossible to guarantee if the team is remote.

I totally agree with this. This has happened at two places where I worked. We had to bring back development in house because once the project got started the main guys we talked to the first time where no where to be found.

Thanks for the tip!

Re: Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

#24

Post by codeonfire »

chetanahuja wrote: post #15
coppolaemilio wrote: post #2

What I know is that the quality of their code is very outdated and even being cheaper to hire you are going to spend lots of money fixing the code. Nothing like having quality code!

"quality of their code is very outdated" ?? What does that mean exactly? "Outdated" is not an adjective usually applied to "quality".

Quality techniques evolved over time. So, outdated might mean untestable code with lots of static globals, #define's, no IOC, written in a way that makes unit tests impossible to write, circular dependencies, etc. These were once considered normal characteristics of code.

Re: Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

#25

Post by geophile »

starter wrote: post #20
geophile wrote: post #4

Assuming you aren't trolling: No, absolutely not. My experience, at two companies, is that what you save in development costs, you quickly pay for (and then some) in management overhead, and low code quality. Some of the code we got was simply not salvageable. (And of course, it consumed time on our side to review the code, reach this conclusion, and document the suckage.) If outsourcing has any chance of working it…

Not trolling, 100% serious. I don't actually want to do outsourcing, per say. My interest lies more in leveraging low market wages in India and actually setting up a foreign office with it's own management etc. You still think India's bad for business?

From other comments here, having someone on-site there improves the odds. But why bother? If you're a startup, you are creating one more unnecessary problem. Also, if you're a startup, you probably are going to be changing things frequently, resulting in constant software updates. In my experience, outsourcing works best (or least awfully) if the task you are outsourcing is completely specified, with no ambiguity. If you are going to be changing specs on them, it won't work so well.

I understand a startup needing to save money, but doing it this way seems crazy to me. I've done five startups by now (four with successful exits). If I were to join another, outsourced software development would be a red flag -- I'd stay away.

Re: Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

#26

Post by tom_b »

My friend, of East European descent (immigrated to the US as a teen), has started a company with a small number of software engineers from his home country. He is US-based and seems to be having success with these engineers building a platform and finding business.

The big win though is that he speaks the language and has direct hired his employees. This could be a catch for you if you are considering working with an outsourcing company. My friend is successful with his hires because he has the intangibles in place - speaking the language, occasional trips back to visit with them, works hard to direct hire (and keep) smart engineers, and he is personally vested in making sure he shares the "spoils" of the business with his employees. He also hacks on the platform, although not as much as in the beginning.

It sounds like you are considering a similar option, so you might be successful. You'll be putting in a lot of time though - frequent conference calls, code reviews, dealing with the occasional bad-fit, etc. In many ways, I think it would be harder than finding someone local to you.

Re: Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

#27

Post by girish_h »

It depends on what kind of project you want the developers in India to get done, combined with the location(city) in India that you are planning to have your team work out of.

If its something like a mobile-first product, it will be better if you can have one of your trusted team-mates, who understands both the product and the aesthetics of your product, sit in India and operate the team: the reason being this team-mate will need to be hands-on with the developers on the product features and also add a lot of value on the aesthetics of the app.

In most cases, the developers in India lack these skills. As long as you are able to address that, you will be good.

The other most important question to ask yourself - are you looking at this team simply to save your development costs (or) are you looking to really collaborate with them and look at them to add value to your product? If its the former, then a lot of brickbats are thrown when the deliverables are getting delayed and you may end up in a bad state and write negative reviews about developers from India. But if you look at the India based team to add a lot of value to your product, then the guys will go any end to deliver the product for you. It becomes a happy ending for everyone. In this case, you wont even mind the 10-12 hour timezone difference.

Re: Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

#28

Post by sergiotapia »

starter wrote: post #22
RealGeek wrote: post #13

I am original from India (now in New York), and I have hired over 40 developers, designers and marketers in New Delhi over the past few years. You can hire good developers in India for $1,000 to $2,000 per month. It is viable to hire team in India, but hiring and managing them remotely is a nightmare. Remote teams in India are unreliable and not committed. In India, you need hustle with your team to get shit done. Th…

Thanks for the tip! Isn't $1-2k per month pretty high for direct pay? My estimate for starting salaries was substantially lower.

Wow - you want to pay less than that for a software engineer who speaks English?

Re: Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

#29

Post by starter »

tom_b wrote: post #26

My friend, of East European descent (immigrated to the US as a teen), has started a company with a small number of software engineers from his home country. He is US-based and seems to be having success with these engineers building a platform and finding business. The big win though is that he speaks the language and has direct hired his employees. This could be a catch for you if you are considering working with an…

Thanks for your feedback! I'm not an Indian native but I am taking language classes in anticipation of doing something in the future. I'm hearing that it really depends on the people.

Re: Ask HN: Is setting up a remote team of developers in India worth it?

#30

Post by starter »

sergiotapia wrote: post #28
starter wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the tip! Isn't $1-2k per month pretty high for direct pay? My estimate for starting salaries was substantially lower.

Wow - you want to pay less than that for a software engineer who speaks English?

Yes, isn't that possible with direct hiring instead of paying more to go through outsourcing firms? My understanding is that roughly $500 monthly puts an Indian in the middle class. Double that and I figure we would be really attractive to young, entry level programmers.
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