Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs?

#21

Post by bearmf » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 6:49 PM UTC

shou4577 wrote: post #9

bearmf wrote: post #6

You should also think of how your attitude might change when you have professionally programmed for several years. It is of course good to like programming. But doing real projects that have users other than yourself is very different from just programming for fun. This is the kind of experience everyone is looking for: finishing real projects. Also, many software companies will see you as overqualified for what they…

Thanks for the warning. I'm working on a project right now that I should be releasing soon to help with the "real project" problem. This is another thing I'm afraid of - being overqualified/people thinking that they are actually my backup job. Is there any way to combat this?

Try to find a company full of like-minded people (maybe math/physics PhDs) and a job that is actually interesting to you. There will be no "overqualified" questions if interviewers understand you and your motivations well and you are enthusiastic about the job.

Experience is the best way to prove it though. If you have done well in a similar job no one will usually question your motivation.

Re: Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs?

#22

Post by Mikosia » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 6:50 PM UTC

In addition to these excellent comments, my recommendation would be to hack up something: work on your fave idea, a fix to a pet peeve, contrib to an Open-source project and so on...You should get a pretty good idea of your strengths/weaknesses. There is no substitute for actually "doing it". It is also something you can point to in job interviews.

p.s This is a sellers market all through.

Re: Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs?

#23

Post by petegrif » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 7:11 PM UTC

Another angle on this is that there are many different types of programming. A math degree is not necessarily a huge advantage for a career in webdev but imho it is a nice start for scientific computing or data mining.

Re: Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs?

#24

Post by Paul_Young » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 7:11 PM UTC

We would hire you at my company.

We've got a unique hiring method in that we hire Pure Math students exclusively (for development). We don't even look at "programmers" anymore. We take them from basically never writing a line of production code in their life, and turn them into great developers in a very short period of time.

Our company does a lot of theoretical compiler type stuff, so Math students fit well into that. We've done this with a number of people now, and it works pretty well.

Shoot an email to work@skybound.ca if you're interested.

Re: Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs?

#25

Post by nazca » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 7:25 PM UTC

Great comments above. One more thing to add: if I was in your position I would be thinking more broadly about how to best use my math background within the software development world. You're worth a lot as a programmer. You're worth even more as a programmer with a PhD in math, providing you can find the right opportunity to apply your skills. You may not notice a big difference in starting salary if you don't have a lot of experience, but if you choose the right path you can likely make much, much more in a 5-10 year time frame. In my current company, we have some minor issues finding good programmers. We have major problems finding programmers that are really good at developing the fundamentals of an approach for solving really hard business problems (hard from an algorithmic perspective).

It may be that your thesis topic is far removed from practical applications, but you likely have a strong enough foundation in math that you would be great at working on a lot domain specific applications. Some others mentioned machine learning, and this is likely a good option, but only one of many. Spin this around and think of it from the business side. Where are there opportunities to put more robust analytical solutions in place in the business world? Start thinking about every company you see, buy products from, or otherwise interact with - how could they (or are they) be more effective at what they do with better math? Everything from better sales forecasting at your local supermarket, to better car design.

Re: Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs?

#26

Post by zura » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 7:32 PM UTC

Paul_Young wrote: post #24

We would hire you at my company. We've got a unique hiring method in that we hire Pure Math students exclusively (for development). We don't even look at "programmers" anymore. We take them from basically never writing a line of production code in their life, and turn them into great developers in a very short period of time. Our company does a lot of theoretical compiler type stuff, so Math students fit well into th…

I understand regarding "programmers", but how about computer scientists?

Re: Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs?

#27

Post by geofft » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 7:44 PM UTC

shou4577 wrote: post #20

geofft wrote: post #12

I figure a math Ph.D. who's poked at Haskell and Django will be smart enough to figure things out, and enough of (the right kind of) programming is more about figuring out new environments than knowing an existing environment very well. The one thing I don't see in your writeup is any concrete experience to look at. Do you have some awesome Django site that does something nifty, or a cleverly-designed Haskell applica…

Thanks, you don't see any concrete experience because there isn't anything worth showing. I'm working on some stuff right now to do just that. It's actually a webapp to allow teachers and students to communicate math effectively without having to know LaTeX and email pdfs. From what I've heard so far, it sounds like there is definitely opportunities for me, and that means that I can justify spending time working on t…

You're probably also overestimating the barrier for what's worth showing, but yeah, that webapp sounds awesome.

Re: Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs?

#28

Post by hnwh » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 7:54 PM UTC

bearmf wrote: post #17

alinajaf wrote: post #10

If you're near a major city in the western world, I think it will take you about two weeks to find a job. You can spend the first two weeks of that visiting your favourite national park or beachside resort. On the last Friday pick up the phone and call your three favourite tech companies in the area. In this market, in all likelihood, you will have an offer or three lined up by the next Monday afternoon.

You are exaggerating, OP has almost no experience in software development. And it is never that easy to get a job even if you are good. Nowadays it is more like 2-3 phone interviews, then a whole day series of face-to-face interviews, then HR interview if you are lucky. All of this takes up LOTS of time.

He's not exaggerating ALL that much.. my recent job search in SF went that way ( PhD in Physics, web programmer).

Re: Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs?

#29

Post by jdowner » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 8:01 PM UTC

If you want a job as a software engineer you will need to demonstrate that you can write software, regardless of your education. So I would recommend (as others have mentioned) that you put your work out there on github or (even better IMO) contribute to an open source project. Working on code with others can provide a tremendous education in itself.

There are a lot of people who will see your PhD as a black mark when it comes to software engineering. There is a belief that you are over-qualified (what ever that is supposed to mean). Whether it is a reasonable belief or not it exists so you will being trying to prove that you produce Quality Code and a Team Player (TM). Once you get your foot in the door, it should become easier.

There are also lots of places that are math PhD friendly :) Like the mathworks for example!

FTR, I have a PhD in applied math and have been a software engineer for about 8 years now. I got my foot in the door by working for free at a game company for a year. Not the way that I advise everyone to take ;) but I lucked out and learned a lot from the experience that it continues to influence my view on software, teams, and leadership to this day.

Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: Are there programming jobs for Math PhDs?

#30

Post by andrewcooke » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 8:01 PM UTC

i think others have said most things i would say (as a programmer who started out with an astronomy phd), but two points that i don't think anyone else has mentioned:

1 - try to get a job in a "real" software company where you are "the maths guy" (or, easier, the existing maths guy's understudy), rather than in a company full of people like yourself (ie where most people are software engineers, not maths phds). in my experience that will help you learn how to be a professional engineer, use good practices, etc etc (although the variation between companies is still huge).

2 - you will be amazed at what most people think is "advanced maths". things that are completely basic for you (like, say, simple geometry or trigonometry) seem to be black arts for the majority of software engineers. this has a good and a bad side: the plus is that it makes what you have very valuable; the possible minus is that you could be asked to do quite boring work.

please don't take the second point to mean that there aren't some very smart, very mathematically competent software engineers out there, because there clearly are. but they are exceptions. value them when you find them.

what i am trying to say, i guess, is that your skills and those of a good software engineer are pretty much disjoint (and complementary, in the non-mathematical sense). so you both have much to gain/learn from the other. and if you can learn, then you become more valuable.