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Ask HN: How many people got VPNs in response to laws like UK Online Safety Act?

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Re: Ask HN: How many people got VPNs in response to laws like UK Online Safety Act?

#21

Post by ben_w »

latexr wrote: post #20
olalonde wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eventually they’ll outlaw VPNs too and by then you’ll have little recourse. Even China doesn't quite manage to enforce that.

It’s a mistake to think you need to get everyone perfectly all the time to be effective. Stopping businesses from operating legally and having your population afraid of committing a crime does a lot of work by itself. It’s only techies who think “if I can get around it, it’s not that big of a deal”. As long as you live in a society, how other people behave affects what you can do too.

Yes, and more.

Even those who are happy to break laws, don't generally do so perfectly.

Even nation states' pulling James Bond stunts don't do it perfectly.

Imperfect enforcement used to be the default even for petty crimes, before CCTV and finger prints and DNA tests and all the other forensics got cheap. The legal systems don't care if the methods are imperfect… and worse, they don't understand why we do, making it hard to explain to them the consequences of this kind of thing in our domain.

Re: Ask HN: How many people got VPNs in response to laws like UK Online Safety Act?

#22

Post by constantcrying »

So much of the Internet is broken if you don't have a VPN (and much of it is broken if you do). But the consequence of circumventing laws through VPNs will inevitably be bans on VPNs for individuals. By the way, the people who are writing these laws aren't clueless 60 year olds who need help operating their phones. The EU politicians pushing through chat control understand what they are doing.

The idea of a global internet is becoming increasingly infeasible and I believe that China is just ahead of its time. If you look at the UK, it is really just a matter of time until they figure out that the real issue they are having is that, the Internet allows communication with entities they can not enforce their laws on. The logical consequence for them will be to deny access entirely. The same seems true for the EU, which is moving in a similar direction.

Re: Ask HN: How many people got VPNs in response to laws like UK Online Safety Act?

#23

Post by cs02rm0 »

A lot I expect. There were stories about VPNs being top of the App Store, etc. when the law kicked in.

Lots of people using Brave's Tor or Opera's VPN in their browsers, and free VPNs like Proton (which seems like a negative security outcome for the country to me).

I'd have thought the intel agencies would be pissed at all that data going dark, but haven't heard a peep in the media.

Re: Ask HN: How many people got VPNs in response to laws like UK Online Safety Act?

#24

Post by gmac »

I’m in the UK and have been using a self-hosted VPN for years, since the Investigatory Powers Act obliged ISPs to keep records of what you browse and gave public bodies warrantless access to those records (which I think on principle is entirely wrong).

Originally IKEv2 and more recently WireGuard, configured like so:

https://github.com/jawj/IKEv2-setup

https://github.com/jawj/wireguard-setup

Re: Ask HN: How many people got VPNs in response to laws like UK Online Safety Act?

#26

Post by Flere-Imsaho »

amiga386 wrote: post #19

I was already using Tor Browser for sites that UK ISPs are banned from letting me access. I continue to use Tor Browser for entirely innocuous sites that are collateral damage of the OSA. For example, the Interactive Fiction Archive. All its game files are voluntarily blocked in the UK by its well-meaning but stupid operators. Even games intended for children. They should stop complying and just serve up all their fi…

I use Orbot on Android - which provides a Tor connection. I'm not sure why people are paying for VPNs for the small number of sites that are blocked in the UK.

Re: Ask HN: How many people got VPNs in response to laws like UK Online Safety Act?

#27

Post by afandian »

amiga386 wrote: post #19

I was already using Tor Browser for sites that UK ISPs are banned from letting me access. I continue to use Tor Browser for entirely innocuous sites that are collateral damage of the OSA. For example, the Interactive Fiction Archive. All its game files are voluntarily blocked in the UK by its well-meaning but stupid operators. Even games intended for children. They should stop complying and just serve up all their fi…

Not only your government. The Conservatives who proposed it. Labour who provided no opposition. But most importantly Ofcom, who comprehensively failed to implement a competent and reasonable solution.

Everyone could have done a lot better, and could have achieved the stated aims without so much damage.

Re: Ask HN: How many people got VPNs in response to laws like UK Online Safety Act?

#28

Post by xzjis »

olalonde wrote: post #15
latexr wrote: post #12

> How many other people have done the same? For your own personal sake, you may be selfishly wishing it’s as few people as possible. Eventually they’ll outlaw VPNs too and by then you’ll have little recourse. You can’t hide behind them forever, deeper change is needed.

> Eventually they’ll outlaw VPNs too and by then you’ll have little recourse. Even China doesn't quite manage to enforce that.

VPNs can never be completely banned because they're a tool used by businesses (nothing is more important than a business in neoliberal capitalism).

Re: Ask HN: How many people got VPNs in response to laws like UK Online Safety Act?

#29

Post by generic92034 »

ataru wrote: post #11

I did, I don't want the hassle of anything being blocked, and I don't want to upload identity details as they have the potential for misuse. I notice that some tech companies claim they are "trusted" or have "trusted third parties", I don't trust them at all, I'm not sure why they think I do.

They trust themselves to do whatever increases the shareholder value. Is that not trust enough for you? /s

Re: Ask HN: How many people got VPNs in response to laws like UK Online Safety Act?

#30

Post by 3rodents »

olalonde wrote: post #15
latexr wrote: post #12

> How many other people have done the same? For your own personal sake, you may be selfishly wishing it’s as few people as possible. Eventually they’ll outlaw VPNs too and by then you’ll have little recourse. You can’t hide behind them forever, deeper change is needed.

> Eventually they’ll outlaw VPNs too and by then you’ll have little recourse. Even China doesn't quite manage to enforce that.

The western view of China’s Internet censorship often flies in the face of reality. A lot of people seem to think China has an impenetrable firewall.

Bypassing internet restrictions in mainland China is a normal part of life for people who want to access the western internet. China is able to censor the Internet effectively because Chinese people are most comfortable using apps that cater directly to Chinese people, through language and culture. The Chinese government has a lot of control over these companies because they’re based are located in China.

The English speaking west is so dependent on the U.S. internet that it is impossible to copy the Chinese model.

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